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Used fulltext search expression: marathon match Rybka Naum
I had to do some real digging to find this "marathon match". It was Rybka 3.2.3a vs Naum 3.1: http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/forum_search.pl?words=marathon+match+Rybka+3+Naum&user=&board=0&field=body&min=&max=&order=desc
There are three questionable aspects with the conclusions you have drawn.
1. And this one should be sufficient in itself...It is a well known fact that Naum gains strength from additional time at a faster rate than Rybka. If it gains on Rybka it would be expected that the increased parity would result in more draws. You certainly can't draw conclusions on the basis of only 2 obsolete engines.
2. Virtually all testing of engines by programmers is at fast time controls or the programmers can't get enough games to draw conclusions rationally. This means that virtually all the time of a programmer is used fixing errors that appear in fast games. So the strength does not necessarily carry over and especially the optimizations are for the speed the programmer is testing at. If configured for longer games there would likely be sizable gains in quality.
3. A draw rate for 100 games compared to another draw rate of only 100 games leave considerable doubt that the disparity even exists. Though it does seem likely and expected from 1.
There are three questionable aspects with the conclusions you have drawn.
1. And this one should be sufficient in itself...It is a well known fact that Naum gains strength from additional time at a faster rate than Rybka. If it gains on Rybka it would be expected that the increased parity would result in more draws. You certainly can't draw conclusions on the basis of only 2 obsolete engines.
2. Virtually all testing of engines by programmers is at fast time controls or the programmers can't get enough games to draw conclusions rationally. This means that virtually all the time of a programmer is used fixing errors that appear in fast games. So the strength does not necessarily carry over and especially the optimizations are for the speed the programmer is testing at. If configured for longer games there would likely be sizable gains in quality.
3. A draw rate for 100 games compared to another draw rate of only 100 games leave considerable doubt that the disparity even exists. Though it does seem likely and expected from 1.
Topic CEGT 40/120 Rybka 3 x64 4CPU vs. Hiarcs 12 4CPU - own books
By Heinz van Kempen
Date 2008-08-28 20:41
Hi all :-),
here are the last games from this match:
Game 47
Nimzo Indian (4.Qc2)
this variation we also had in game 42 with colors reversed. Hiarcs out of book on move 21 but this position already is an endgame that "smells" like a draw.
At this point I want to mention that I am very enthusiastic with Jeroen´s book with broad and deep lines (those it covers and is specialized on), but want to make a proposal here in order to optimize this for Rybka as much superior engine compared to all. Nonetheless this endgame offers too little to play for a win. The proposal would be to delete for the next update variations of this kind, which are surely not bad but too easily lead to a draw with such reduced material. Should not be so many, with white pieces I only found this one up to now. With black pieces I think a draw from time to time is not so bad against Zappa or Naum for example, but even would be against much weaker engines, giving a few ELO less.
[Event "CEGT Quad 40/120 repeated"]
[Site "Engine Match, own books"]
[Date "2008.08.28"]
[Round "47"]
[White "Rybka 3 x64 4CPU"]
[Black "HIARCS 12 ShPV 4CPU"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
1. d4 {Black last book move 0s} Nf6 {+0.01/1 1s} 2. c4 {0s}
e6 {+0.01/1 0s} 3. Nc3 {0s} Bb4 {+0.01/1 0s} 4. Qc2 {0s}
O-O {+0.01/1 0s} 5. a3 {0s} Bxc3+ {+0.01/1 0s} 6. Qxc3 {0s}
b6 {+0.01/1 0s} 7. Bg5 {0s} Bb7 {+0.01/1 0s} 8. f3 {0s} h6
{+0.01/1 0s} 9. Bh4 {0s} d5 {+0.01/1 0s} 10. e3 {0s} Nbd7
{+0.01/1 0s} 11. cxd5 {0s} Nxd5 {+0.01/1 0s} 12. Bxd8 {0s}
Nxc3 {+0.01/1 0s} 13. Bh4 {0s} Nd5 {+0.01/1 0s} 14. Bf2
{0s} c5 {+0.01/1 0s} 15. e4 {0s} Ne7 {+0.01/1 0s} 16. Bb5
{0s} Bc6 {+0.01/1 0s} 17. Bxc6 {0s} Nxc6 {+0.01/1 0s}
18. Ne2 {0s} cxd4 {+0.01/1 0s} 19. Nxd4 {0s} Rfc8 {+0.01/1
0s} 20. O-O {0s} Nxd4 {+0.01/1 0s} 21. Bxd4 {White last
book move 0s} Rc2 {-0.27/22 7:21m} 22. Rac1 {(Rad1)
+0.09/24 11:33m} Rac8 {-0.28/24 7:23m} 23. Bc3 {+0.11/25
4:43m} Rxc1 {-0.28/24 5:47m} 24. Rxc1 {+0.11/24 0s} f6
{-0.29/23 5:27m} 25. Kf2 {+0.09/24 26:58m} Kf7 {-0.28/22
5:29m} 26. Ke2 {(h4) +0.13/23 12:14m} g5 {(e5) -0.24/21
5:30m} 27. a4 {(Rd1) +0.14/22 7:05m} f5 {(e5) -0.20/20
5:31m} 28. Rd1 {+0.19/21 1:55m} Ke7 {-0.25/19 5:05m}
29. Bb4+ {+0.18/21 9:35m} Nc5 {-0.25/20 4:16m} 30. Rd4
{(Ba3) +0.17/21 11:36m} h5 {(Rc6) -0.35/20 9:46m} 31. Rc4
{+0.24/20 4:40m} Kd6 {-0.26/19 4:58m} 32. Bd2 {(Be1)
+0.20/20 2:38m} Rg8 {-0.24/20 4:39m} 33. Rd4+ {+0.25/20
3:24m} Kc6 {(Kc7) -0.23/22 5:41m} 34. e5 {+0.23/22 4:20m}
Kb7 {-0.28/21 5:00m} 35. a5 {+0.21/22 4:18m} bxa5 {-0.28/21
5:52m} 36. Bxa5 {+0.19/22 2:39m} Kc6 {-0.22/23 6:00m}
37. Bd2 {+0.16/21 4:09m} Kb5 {(h4) -0.21/22 4:04m} 38. Rb4+
{+0.22/20 1:00m} Kc6 {-0.20/23 5:20m} 39. Be3 {+0.22/23
4:04m} Nd7 {-0.22/22 5:38m} 40. Rc4+ {+0.22/22 2:36m} Kb7
{-0.21/23 10:26m} 41. Ra4 {+0.16/23 8:36m} Nb6 {-0.20/22
3:09m} 42. Rb4 {+0.08/23 2:53m} Kc6 {(Rg7) -0.20/22 3:03m}
43. Bxb6 {+0.16/24 7:04m} axb6 {-0.20/22 53s} 44. Rd4
{+0.09/25 5:35m} Kc5 {-0.20/23 2:52m} 45. Ke3 {(Kd3)
+0.09/25 3:53m} h4 {(Ra8) -0.17/23 2:47m} 46. g3 {(b4+)
+0.09/21 3:22m} hxg3 {-0.10/23 2:11m} 47. hxg3 {+0.06/26
1:37m} Rh8 {(Rg6) -0.03/25 3:17m} 48. b4+ {+0.06/27 3:12m}
Kb5 {-0.03/25 47s} 49. Rd6 {+0.06/27 1:20m} Rh6 {-0.01/24
2:53m} 50. Kd4 {+0.06/28 2:28m} Rg6 {0.00/24 2:06m} 51. f4
{(g4) 0.00/29 4:00m} g4 {(gxf4) 0.00/28 2:36m} 52. Kd3
{(Ke3) 0.00/30 2:14m} Rh6 {0.00/29 2:49m} 53. Kc3 {(Kd4)
0.00/30 2:04m} Rg6 {0.00/26 3:01m} 54. Kd2 {(Kd3) 0.00/31
2:39m} Rh6 {0.00/27 2:00m} 55. Ke2 {0.00/30 1:12m} Rg6
{(Rh2+) 0.00/26 1:55m} 56. Kf2 {(Kd3) 0.00/33 2:07m} Rh6
{0.00/31 2:24m} 57. Kg2 {0.00/33 1:48m} Rg6 {0.00/33 3:10m}
58. Kh1 {(Kf2) 0.00/34 2:17m} Rh6+ {0.00/31 2:52m} 59. Kg2
{0.00/39 1:50m} Rg6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/34 3:12m} 60. Kf2 {0.00/37
5:04m} Rh6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/33 3:03m} 61. Ke3 {0.00/27 1:11m}
Rg6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/27 3:14m} 62. Kd4 {0.00/33 1:39m} Rh6
{0.00/32 2:50m} 63. Ke3 {0.00/34 2:03m} Rg6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/27
3:17m} 64. Ke2 {0.00/33 1:24m} Rh6 {0.00/31 2:50m} 65. Ke3
{Draw accepted 0.00/34 1:48m } 1/2-1/2
Game 48
French Defence (Steinitz Variation)
A few words about the French Defence. Those acquainted with chess theory can skip this (it´s beginners stuff). The name comes from a match France vs. England played via telegraph at those times and when I remember correctly the French players won.
When not choosing the exchange variation with 3.ed5: which has the reputation to be too symmetrical and therefore drawish, we usually have a white pawn chain c3, d4, e5 in Advance Variation (3.e5), Tarrasch Defence (3.Nd2) and the most popular systems starting with 3.Nc3 Nf6 Black tries to undermine the center by playing moves like c5 or f6 at the right moment, usually c5 first, often on move three or four depending on the subvariation. The most common theme is that Black tries not to release the tension and to press against the d4 square. Mostly White takes inlfuence on this square and in case of taking recaptures with the c3 pawn, but there are other attempts to control this center with pieces or put them there. When white can solve the problems with the d4 square this line gives him often space advantage and/or attacking chances.
After 3.Nc3 apart from a system with 3...de4: (and also named after Rubinstein), two other systems are more frequently played. There is the Winawer variation starting with 3.Nc3 Bb4 where often White get´s a doubled pawn in the c-file being attacked later for instance with Qc7 but also sometimes has pressure against g7 after Qg4 at some point and Black often sacrifices this pawn on g7. But there are also quiet approaches with 7.a4 or 7.Nf3, leading often to very closed pawn structure positions not so advisable for engines and which might be a reason that the French Defence is not played so often by Jeroen´s book compared to the Sicilians with mostly sharp attacks or open files created.
Maybe we will see all of this later in some games vs. Zappa. The second main line starts with 3.Nc3 Nf6 and White can decide then to play 4.Bg5 or 4.e5 (the Steiinitz variation we have in this game). White often goes for a setup with c3 and f4. The move 5.Nce2 in the game is a special one I saw sometimes in Anand´s games. The French Defence was played by countless World Champions and GM´s having many successes with it. A downside of this defence is the c8 bishop, which tends to be bad in many lines and if Black can´t exchange it often leads to an inferior endgame with bad bishop against good knight what gave many wins for white.
Can you imagine Rybka 3 with a lost position around move 20, exposed to a terrible attack and resigning on move 31 with a mate in 11 coming?
Here is how it went (the game itself was already posted in an answer to Harvey):
[Event "CEGT Quad 40/120 repeated"]
[Site "Engine Match, own books"]
[Date "2008.08.28"]
[Round "48"]
[White "HIARCS 12 ShPV 4CPU"]
[Black "Rybka 3 x64 4CPU"]
[ECO "C11"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. e4 {White last book move +0.01/1 1s} e6 {0s} 2. d4
{+0.01/1 0s} d5 {0s} 3. Nc3 {+0.01/1 0s} Nf6 {0s} 4. e5
{+0.01/1 0s} Nfd7 {0s} 5. Nce2 {+0.01/1 0s} c5 {0s} 6. c3
{+0.01/1 0s} Nc6 {0s} 7. f4 {+0.01/1 0s} Qb6 {0s} 8. Nf3
{+0.01/1 0s} f6 {Black last book move 0s} 9. g3 {-0.10/17
3:17m} fxe5 {(Le7) +0.04/17 3:55m} 10. fxe5 {-0.04/17
4:18m} cxd4 {0.00/18 2:53m} 11. Nexd4 {-0.07/18 4:10m} Nxd4
{(Sc5) -0.08/19 17:41m} 12. cxd4 {(Sxd4) +0.01/1 0s} Bb4+
{-0.09/19 4:50m} 13. Kf2 {+0.01/1 0s} O-O {-0.08/19 1:59m}
14. Kg2 {+0.01/1 0s} Nb8 {-0.22/20 9:17m} 15. Bd3 {+0.93/19
4:42m} Nc6 {-0.22/20 25:38m} 16. Be3 {+1.18/18 2:51m} Be7
{-0.76/17 6:23m} 17. Qb1 {(Dc2) +1.28/18 5:48m} Bd7 {(h5)
-0.57/17 3:20m} 18. Bxh7+ {+1.64/17 2:38m} Kh8 {-0.57/16
0s} 19. Rf1 {+1.69/18 3:54m} Be8 {-0.66/18 10:40m} 20. Bg6
{(h3) +1.95/17 3:55m} Bxg6 {-0.84/17 6:54m} 21. Qxg6
{+2.52/18 2:12m} Qxb2+ {-0.84/17 8:44m} 22. Kh3 {+2.83/19
2:41m} Qa3 {-2.28/15 2:09m} 23. Bc1 {(Sg5) +6.60/19 5:03m}
Qa5 {-5.65/14 5:12m} 24. Bh6 {+6.71/20 3:03m} gxh6
{-4.11/11 0s} 25. Qxh6+ {+8.28/20 4:49m} Kg8 {-4.11/11 0s}
26. Ng5 {(Dg6+) +8.36/20 3:05m} Bxg5 {-5.84/15 1:07m}
27. Qxg5+ {+9.97/20 4:13m} Kh8 {-6.10/15 2:15m} 28. Qh6+
{(Tf6) +10.07/20 2:38m} Kg8 {-2.50/11 0s} 29. Qxe6+
{+10.31/20 2:44m} Kg7 {(Kh8) -6.89/13 2:27m} 30. Rf6
{(Dg4+) +11.39/19 4:34m} Rxf6 {(Dc7) -7.10/11 27s}
31. exf6+ {(Dxf6+) +M11/21 2:52m} 1-0
I assume this loss is not from the book, because all was okay for some more moves.
Checking my databases I found two games where White even got quicker wins with this line. Seems to be dangerous.
You will find this games in the annotations tomorrow morning in the download.
A video with the French Steinitz veriation:
Topalov-Ivanchuk (M-Tel 2008) (GM Larry Christiansen)
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Mtel08/Round2/GOTD.html
Game 49
Petroff
The Petroff or Russian Defence is a weapon to achieve a draw with Black pieces and in this way was very successfully applied by Kramnik and others driving White players into desperation, despite of many lines to choose from, because it gave tons of draws for Black in top GM tournaments.
Another main line here, but nowadays played less frequently is 3.d4 and even after 3.Ne5: d6 4.Nf7: the Cochrane Gambit. Shirov on his DVD on the Petroff assesses this one as incorrect, but it is always a surprise weapon and Christian Koch got good results with it for White in a former CEGT 40/120 repeated theme tournament with engines.
On move 5 many GM´s try nowadays setups with 5.Nc3 when the white dark squared bishop depending on Black´s reaction either goes to e3 or f4. According to Jeroen there is a novelty in this line in his book which should be quite spectacular.
In this game the Rybka book played the main line 5.d4. With next moves there are so many different subvariations all covered by the book that I will not mention them all, only tell that the line in the game with 9.c4 Nb4 is a topic one played in many thousands of games.
18 book moves from both and a relatively sharp line with advanced isolated and doubled d-pawns arose. Rybka more optimistic move after move, sacrificing the exchange and playing a good endgame first penetrating with a rook and getting a free c7 pawn, then sacrificing it to capture the king side pawns instead and advancing the passed pawns there decided the game.
Interesting game and worth a replay.
[Event "CEGT Quad 40/120 repeated"]
[Site "Engine Match, own books"]
[Date "2008.08.29"]
[Round "49"]
[White "Rybka 3 x64 4CPU"]
[Black "HIARCS 12 ShPV 4CPU"]
[ECO "C42"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. e4 {Black last book move +M-2767/0 0s} e5 {+0.01/1 1s}
2. Nf3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nf6 {+0.01/1 0s} 3. Nxe5 {+M-2767/0
0s} d6 {+0.01/1 0s} 4. Nf3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nxe4 {+0.01/1 0s}
5. d4 {+M-2767/0 0s} d5 {+0.01/1 0s} 6. Bd3 {+M-2767/0 0s}
Nc6 {+0.01/1 0s} 7. O-O {+M-2767/0 0s} Be7 {+0.01/1 0s}
8. c4 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nb4 {+0.01/1 0s} 9. Be2 {+M-2767/0 0s}
O-O {+0.01/1 0s} 10. Nc3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Bf5 {+0.01/1 0s}
11. a3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nxc3 {+0.01/1 0s} 12. bxc3 {+M-2767/0
0s} Nc6 {+0.01/1 0s} 13. Re1 {+M-2767/0 0s} Re8 {+0.01/1
0s} 14. cxd5 {+M-2767/0 0s} Qxd5 {+0.01/1 0s} 15. Bf4
{+M-2767/0 0s} Bd6 {+0.01/1 0s} 16. c4 {+M-2767/0 0s} Qe4
{+0.01/1 0s} 17. Be3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Rad8 {+0.01/1 0s}
18. Ra2 {White last book move +M-2767/0 0s} h6 {+0.01/1 0s}
19. Qc1 {+0.33/18 5:33m} b6 {-0.19/17 5:08m} 20. Rd2
{+0.31/19 4:34m} Rb8 {(Sa5) -0.58/18 9:52m} 21. Bd1
{+0.46/18 6:58m} Na5 {-0.62/17 5:51m} 22. Ba4 {(Tde2)
+0.60/19 5:11m} Re6 {(Lg4) -0.63/18 6:18m} 23. Bc2
{+0.67/18 6:24m} Qg4 {-0.66/18 1:15m} 24. h3 {+0.67/19
2:32m} Qh5 {-0.67/18 3:39m} 25. c5 {+0.67/20 8:37m} Bxc2
{(bxc5) -0.60/18 5:07m} 26. cxd6 {(Dxc2) +0.93/18 3:29m}
Ba4 {(Le4) -0.65/19 5:09m} 27. Qxc7 {+1.19/19 4:27m} Rb7
{-0.76/19 6:47m} 28. d5 {+1.33/19 3:27m} Rg6 {-0.71/19
5:05m} 29. Qd8+ {+1.33/17 0s} Kh7 {-0.73/19 1:16m} 30. Kh1
{+1.26/19 6:54m} Bd7 {(Sb3) -0.99/19 10:37m} 31. Nh4
{+1.50/19 9:09m} Rf6 {-0.92/20 5:39m} 32. Bd4 {+1.50/20
3:24m} Qxh4 {-1.10/20 7:50m} 33. Bxf6 {+1.50/19 0s} Qxf6
{-1.10/21 3:24m} 34. Qxf6 {+1.29/23 5:38m} gxf6 {-0.89/24
1:13m} 35. Rc2 {+1.29/22 0s} Kg7 {-0.47/23 5:39m} 36. Rc7
{(Kh2) +1.27/23 4:04m} Kf8 {-0.57/23 5:48m} 37. Re4
{+1.17/25 5:55m} f5 {-0.57/25 5:40m} 38. Rh4 {+1.37/26
16:49m} Kg7 {-0.70/25 4:39m} 39. Kh2 {+1.23/25 3:36m} Kg6
{(a6) -0.57/24 3:58m} 40. Kg3 {+1.38/26 11:53m} Kg5
{-0.68/23 9:00m} 41. Rb4 {(f3) +1.72/25 15:39m} Kf6
{0.00/23 2:30m} 42. f4 {(Th4) +1.72/24 0s} Rxc7 {-1.00/24
5:39m} 43. dxc7 {+1.72/24 0s} Nb7 {(Ke7) -0.97/25 2:50m}
44. Kh4 {+1.73/25 2:17m} Nd6 {-1.05/24 2:22m} 45. Kh5
{+1.73/26 3:27m} Kg7 {-1.02/24 3:20m} 46. Rb3 {(Tb1)
+1.73/26 1:28m} Bc8 {-1.07/25 3:14m} 47. Rg3+ {+1.73/26
2:53m} Kh7 {-1.07/25 47s} 48. Kh4 {(Tc3) +1.73/27 3:10m}
Bb7 {-1.07/25 3:06m} 49. a4 {+1.73/26 2:01m} Nc8 {-1.03/25
3:00m} 50. Rd3 {+1.73/24 0s} Nd6 {-1.03/25 2:55m} 51. Kh5
{+1.72/25 4:08m} Bc8 {(a6) -1.03/25 2:49m} 52. Rb3 {(Te3)
+1.73/26 4:15m} Kg7 {-1.03/25 2:50m} 53. Rg3+ {+1.72/25
1:37m} Kh7 {-1.03/25 42s} 54. Rc3 {+1.72/26 1:52m} Ne4
{-1.03/25 2:55m} 55. Rc6 {(Te3) +2.30/25 9:33m} Kg7
{-1.36/25 4:24m} 56. Kh4 {+2.52/25 19:09m} Kf8 {-1.35/24
1:57m} 57. Rxh6 {(g4) +2.52/23 0s} Ke7 {-1.28/23 2:56m}
58. Rh8 {(g4) +2.52/22 0s} Kd7 {-1.78/22 2:14m } 59. Rf8
{+2.52/24 2:58m} Kxc7 {-1.88/21 3:06m} 60. Rxf7+ {+2.52/22
0s} Bd7 {-1.89/22 2:59m} 61. g4 {+2.52/21 0s} Kd6 {(fxg4)
-2.24/23 7:54m} 62. g5 {+4.66/19 15:18m} Bxa4 {(Le8)
-2.83/22 3:38m} 63. Rxf5 {+5.05/17 0s} Bb3 {-3.50/22 5:46m}
64. g6 {+5.05/21 54s} Bxd5 {-3.75/22 3:15m} 65. g7
{+5.05/22 1:55m} Ba2 {(Lc4) -4.26/23 8:30m} 66. Re5
{+5.05/20 0s} Nc5 {-4.29/21 3:55m} 67. Re8 {+5.05/18 6:00m}
Kd7 {-4.54/20 1:59m} 68. Re3 {(g8T) +5.05/18 0s} Nb7 {(b5)
-4.40/21 3:38m} 69. f5 {(Ta3) +5.09/20 7:58m} Nd6 {-6.41/23
6:00m } 70. Kg5 {+5.09/17 0s} a5 {(Lg8) -6.48/21 1:28m}
71. h4 {(f6) +5.33/15 1:19m } 1-0
ICC free vids with the Petroff:
Najditsch-Kramnik (Dortmund 2008) here surprisingly Kramnik got defeated (I think with a novelty in a 5.Nc3 line)
Comments by GM Ronen Har-Zvi
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Dortmund08/Round3/GOTD.html
Karjakin-Jakovenko (Aerosvit 2008), so a duel of two rising stars
Comments by GM Joel Benjamin
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Aerosvit08/Round4/GOTD.html
Anand-Kramnik (Corus 2008)
Comments by GM Ronen Har-Zvi
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Corus08/01_27_08/GOTD.html
Ivanchuk-Kramnik (Tal Memorial 2007)
Comments by GM Larry Christiansen
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Tal07/Round9/LarryC_GOTD.html
Anand-Kramnik (Mexico 2007)
Comments by GM Joel Benjamin
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Mexico07/GOTD/Round3/Benjamin.html
The last game no. 50 appears to be a marathon game, 80 moves so far and no end in sight. Rybka having some advantage but maybe Hiarcs can get a draw. I am too tired to wait for the finish, so just download all tomorrow morning if you like.
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/replay.htm
So we have more or less the same score than with generic books, but here not the result counts. When you check the games and what happened right after the openings you will detect a lot of them when the Rybka book already provided an edge and some when it gave already decisive advantage.
I will not have internet access from tomorrow morning till Tuesday or Wednesday and will then come up with an update on the generic set matches and first games against Zappa with own books (still not knowing if with Erdo´s or the one by Sedat).
Kind Regards
Heinz
here are the last games from this match:
Game 47
Nimzo Indian (4.Qc2)
this variation we also had in game 42 with colors reversed. Hiarcs out of book on move 21 but this position already is an endgame that "smells" like a draw.
At this point I want to mention that I am very enthusiastic with Jeroen´s book with broad and deep lines (those it covers and is specialized on), but want to make a proposal here in order to optimize this for Rybka as much superior engine compared to all. Nonetheless this endgame offers too little to play for a win. The proposal would be to delete for the next update variations of this kind, which are surely not bad but too easily lead to a draw with such reduced material. Should not be so many, with white pieces I only found this one up to now. With black pieces I think a draw from time to time is not so bad against Zappa or Naum for example, but even would be against much weaker engines, giving a few ELO less.
[Event "CEGT Quad 40/120 repeated"]
[Site "Engine Match, own books"]
[Date "2008.08.28"]
[Round "47"]
[White "Rybka 3 x64 4CPU"]
[Black "HIARCS 12 ShPV 4CPU"]
[ECO "E32"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
1. d4 {Black last book move 0s} Nf6 {+0.01/1 1s} 2. c4 {0s}
e6 {+0.01/1 0s} 3. Nc3 {0s} Bb4 {+0.01/1 0s} 4. Qc2 {0s}
O-O {+0.01/1 0s} 5. a3 {0s} Bxc3+ {+0.01/1 0s} 6. Qxc3 {0s}
b6 {+0.01/1 0s} 7. Bg5 {0s} Bb7 {+0.01/1 0s} 8. f3 {0s} h6
{+0.01/1 0s} 9. Bh4 {0s} d5 {+0.01/1 0s} 10. e3 {0s} Nbd7
{+0.01/1 0s} 11. cxd5 {0s} Nxd5 {+0.01/1 0s} 12. Bxd8 {0s}
Nxc3 {+0.01/1 0s} 13. Bh4 {0s} Nd5 {+0.01/1 0s} 14. Bf2
{0s} c5 {+0.01/1 0s} 15. e4 {0s} Ne7 {+0.01/1 0s} 16. Bb5
{0s} Bc6 {+0.01/1 0s} 17. Bxc6 {0s} Nxc6 {+0.01/1 0s}
18. Ne2 {0s} cxd4 {+0.01/1 0s} 19. Nxd4 {0s} Rfc8 {+0.01/1
0s} 20. O-O {0s} Nxd4 {+0.01/1 0s} 21. Bxd4 {White last
book move 0s} Rc2 {-0.27/22 7:21m} 22. Rac1 {(Rad1)
+0.09/24 11:33m} Rac8 {-0.28/24 7:23m} 23. Bc3 {+0.11/25
4:43m} Rxc1 {-0.28/24 5:47m} 24. Rxc1 {+0.11/24 0s} f6
{-0.29/23 5:27m} 25. Kf2 {+0.09/24 26:58m} Kf7 {-0.28/22
5:29m} 26. Ke2 {(h4) +0.13/23 12:14m} g5 {(e5) -0.24/21
5:30m} 27. a4 {(Rd1) +0.14/22 7:05m} f5 {(e5) -0.20/20
5:31m} 28. Rd1 {+0.19/21 1:55m} Ke7 {-0.25/19 5:05m}
29. Bb4+ {+0.18/21 9:35m} Nc5 {-0.25/20 4:16m} 30. Rd4
{(Ba3) +0.17/21 11:36m} h5 {(Rc6) -0.35/20 9:46m} 31. Rc4
{+0.24/20 4:40m} Kd6 {-0.26/19 4:58m} 32. Bd2 {(Be1)
+0.20/20 2:38m} Rg8 {-0.24/20 4:39m} 33. Rd4+ {+0.25/20
3:24m} Kc6 {(Kc7) -0.23/22 5:41m} 34. e5 {+0.23/22 4:20m}
Kb7 {-0.28/21 5:00m} 35. a5 {+0.21/22 4:18m} bxa5 {-0.28/21
5:52m} 36. Bxa5 {+0.19/22 2:39m} Kc6 {-0.22/23 6:00m}
37. Bd2 {+0.16/21 4:09m} Kb5 {(h4) -0.21/22 4:04m} 38. Rb4+
{+0.22/20 1:00m} Kc6 {-0.20/23 5:20m} 39. Be3 {+0.22/23
4:04m} Nd7 {-0.22/22 5:38m} 40. Rc4+ {+0.22/22 2:36m} Kb7
{-0.21/23 10:26m} 41. Ra4 {+0.16/23 8:36m} Nb6 {-0.20/22
3:09m} 42. Rb4 {+0.08/23 2:53m} Kc6 {(Rg7) -0.20/22 3:03m}
43. Bxb6 {+0.16/24 7:04m} axb6 {-0.20/22 53s} 44. Rd4
{+0.09/25 5:35m} Kc5 {-0.20/23 2:52m} 45. Ke3 {(Kd3)
+0.09/25 3:53m} h4 {(Ra8) -0.17/23 2:47m} 46. g3 {(b4+)
+0.09/21 3:22m} hxg3 {-0.10/23 2:11m} 47. hxg3 {+0.06/26
1:37m} Rh8 {(Rg6) -0.03/25 3:17m} 48. b4+ {+0.06/27 3:12m}
Kb5 {-0.03/25 47s} 49. Rd6 {+0.06/27 1:20m} Rh6 {-0.01/24
2:53m} 50. Kd4 {+0.06/28 2:28m} Rg6 {0.00/24 2:06m} 51. f4
{(g4) 0.00/29 4:00m} g4 {(gxf4) 0.00/28 2:36m} 52. Kd3
{(Ke3) 0.00/30 2:14m} Rh6 {0.00/29 2:49m} 53. Kc3 {(Kd4)
0.00/30 2:04m} Rg6 {0.00/26 3:01m} 54. Kd2 {(Kd3) 0.00/31
2:39m} Rh6 {0.00/27 2:00m} 55. Ke2 {0.00/30 1:12m} Rg6
{(Rh2+) 0.00/26 1:55m} 56. Kf2 {(Kd3) 0.00/33 2:07m} Rh6
{0.00/31 2:24m} 57. Kg2 {0.00/33 1:48m} Rg6 {0.00/33 3:10m}
58. Kh1 {(Kf2) 0.00/34 2:17m} Rh6+ {0.00/31 2:52m} 59. Kg2
{0.00/39 1:50m} Rg6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/34 3:12m} 60. Kf2 {0.00/37
5:04m} Rh6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/33 3:03m} 61. Ke3 {0.00/27 1:11m}
Rg6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/27 3:14m} 62. Kd4 {0.00/33 1:39m} Rh6
{0.00/32 2:50m} 63. Ke3 {0.00/34 2:03m} Rg6 {(Kxb4) 0.00/27
3:17m} 64. Ke2 {0.00/33 1:24m} Rh6 {0.00/31 2:50m} 65. Ke3
{Draw accepted 0.00/34 1:48m } 1/2-1/2
Game 48
French Defence (Steinitz Variation)
A few words about the French Defence. Those acquainted with chess theory can skip this (it´s beginners stuff). The name comes from a match France vs. England played via telegraph at those times and when I remember correctly the French players won.
When not choosing the exchange variation with 3.ed5: which has the reputation to be too symmetrical and therefore drawish, we usually have a white pawn chain c3, d4, e5 in Advance Variation (3.e5), Tarrasch Defence (3.Nd2) and the most popular systems starting with 3.Nc3 Nf6 Black tries to undermine the center by playing moves like c5 or f6 at the right moment, usually c5 first, often on move three or four depending on the subvariation. The most common theme is that Black tries not to release the tension and to press against the d4 square. Mostly White takes inlfuence on this square and in case of taking recaptures with the c3 pawn, but there are other attempts to control this center with pieces or put them there. When white can solve the problems with the d4 square this line gives him often space advantage and/or attacking chances.
After 3.Nc3 apart from a system with 3...de4: (and also named after Rubinstein), two other systems are more frequently played. There is the Winawer variation starting with 3.Nc3 Bb4 where often White get´s a doubled pawn in the c-file being attacked later for instance with Qc7 but also sometimes has pressure against g7 after Qg4 at some point and Black often sacrifices this pawn on g7. But there are also quiet approaches with 7.a4 or 7.Nf3, leading often to very closed pawn structure positions not so advisable for engines and which might be a reason that the French Defence is not played so often by Jeroen´s book compared to the Sicilians with mostly sharp attacks or open files created.
Maybe we will see all of this later in some games vs. Zappa. The second main line starts with 3.Nc3 Nf6 and White can decide then to play 4.Bg5 or 4.e5 (the Steiinitz variation we have in this game). White often goes for a setup with c3 and f4. The move 5.Nce2 in the game is a special one I saw sometimes in Anand´s games. The French Defence was played by countless World Champions and GM´s having many successes with it. A downside of this defence is the c8 bishop, which tends to be bad in many lines and if Black can´t exchange it often leads to an inferior endgame with bad bishop against good knight what gave many wins for white.
Can you imagine Rybka 3 with a lost position around move 20, exposed to a terrible attack and resigning on move 31 with a mate in 11 coming?
Here is how it went (the game itself was already posted in an answer to Harvey):
[Event "CEGT Quad 40/120 repeated"]
[Site "Engine Match, own books"]
[Date "2008.08.28"]
[Round "48"]
[White "HIARCS 12 ShPV 4CPU"]
[Black "Rybka 3 x64 4CPU"]
[ECO "C11"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. e4 {White last book move +0.01/1 1s} e6 {0s} 2. d4
{+0.01/1 0s} d5 {0s} 3. Nc3 {+0.01/1 0s} Nf6 {0s} 4. e5
{+0.01/1 0s} Nfd7 {0s} 5. Nce2 {+0.01/1 0s} c5 {0s} 6. c3
{+0.01/1 0s} Nc6 {0s} 7. f4 {+0.01/1 0s} Qb6 {0s} 8. Nf3
{+0.01/1 0s} f6 {Black last book move 0s} 9. g3 {-0.10/17
3:17m} fxe5 {(Le7) +0.04/17 3:55m} 10. fxe5 {-0.04/17
4:18m} cxd4 {0.00/18 2:53m} 11. Nexd4 {-0.07/18 4:10m} Nxd4
{(Sc5) -0.08/19 17:41m} 12. cxd4 {(Sxd4) +0.01/1 0s} Bb4+
{-0.09/19 4:50m} 13. Kf2 {+0.01/1 0s} O-O {-0.08/19 1:59m}
14. Kg2 {+0.01/1 0s} Nb8 {-0.22/20 9:17m} 15. Bd3 {+0.93/19
4:42m} Nc6 {-0.22/20 25:38m} 16. Be3 {+1.18/18 2:51m} Be7
{-0.76/17 6:23m} 17. Qb1 {(Dc2) +1.28/18 5:48m} Bd7 {(h5)
-0.57/17 3:20m} 18. Bxh7+ {+1.64/17 2:38m} Kh8 {-0.57/16
0s} 19. Rf1 {+1.69/18 3:54m} Be8 {-0.66/18 10:40m} 20. Bg6
{(h3) +1.95/17 3:55m} Bxg6 {-0.84/17 6:54m} 21. Qxg6
{+2.52/18 2:12m} Qxb2+ {-0.84/17 8:44m} 22. Kh3 {+2.83/19
2:41m} Qa3 {-2.28/15 2:09m} 23. Bc1 {(Sg5) +6.60/19 5:03m}
Qa5 {-5.65/14 5:12m} 24. Bh6 {+6.71/20 3:03m} gxh6
{-4.11/11 0s} 25. Qxh6+ {+8.28/20 4:49m} Kg8 {-4.11/11 0s}
26. Ng5 {(Dg6+) +8.36/20 3:05m} Bxg5 {-5.84/15 1:07m}
27. Qxg5+ {+9.97/20 4:13m} Kh8 {-6.10/15 2:15m} 28. Qh6+
{(Tf6) +10.07/20 2:38m} Kg8 {-2.50/11 0s} 29. Qxe6+
{+10.31/20 2:44m} Kg7 {(Kh8) -6.89/13 2:27m} 30. Rf6
{(Dg4+) +11.39/19 4:34m} Rxf6 {(Dc7) -7.10/11 27s}
31. exf6+ {(Dxf6+) +M11/21 2:52m} 1-0
I assume this loss is not from the book, because all was okay for some more moves.
Checking my databases I found two games where White even got quicker wins with this line. Seems to be dangerous.
You will find this games in the annotations tomorrow morning in the download.
A video with the French Steinitz veriation:
Topalov-Ivanchuk (M-Tel 2008) (GM Larry Christiansen)
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Mtel08/Round2/GOTD.html
Game 49
Petroff
The Petroff or Russian Defence is a weapon to achieve a draw with Black pieces and in this way was very successfully applied by Kramnik and others driving White players into desperation, despite of many lines to choose from, because it gave tons of draws for Black in top GM tournaments.
Another main line here, but nowadays played less frequently is 3.d4 and even after 3.Ne5: d6 4.Nf7: the Cochrane Gambit. Shirov on his DVD on the Petroff assesses this one as incorrect, but it is always a surprise weapon and Christian Koch got good results with it for White in a former CEGT 40/120 repeated theme tournament with engines.
On move 5 many GM´s try nowadays setups with 5.Nc3 when the white dark squared bishop depending on Black´s reaction either goes to e3 or f4. According to Jeroen there is a novelty in this line in his book which should be quite spectacular.
In this game the Rybka book played the main line 5.d4. With next moves there are so many different subvariations all covered by the book that I will not mention them all, only tell that the line in the game with 9.c4 Nb4 is a topic one played in many thousands of games.
18 book moves from both and a relatively sharp line with advanced isolated and doubled d-pawns arose. Rybka more optimistic move after move, sacrificing the exchange and playing a good endgame first penetrating with a rook and getting a free c7 pawn, then sacrificing it to capture the king side pawns instead and advancing the passed pawns there decided the game.
Interesting game and worth a replay.
[Event "CEGT Quad 40/120 repeated"]
[Site "Engine Match, own books"]
[Date "2008.08.29"]
[Round "49"]
[White "Rybka 3 x64 4CPU"]
[Black "HIARCS 12 ShPV 4CPU"]
[ECO "C42"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. e4 {Black last book move +M-2767/0 0s} e5 {+0.01/1 1s}
2. Nf3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nf6 {+0.01/1 0s} 3. Nxe5 {+M-2767/0
0s} d6 {+0.01/1 0s} 4. Nf3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nxe4 {+0.01/1 0s}
5. d4 {+M-2767/0 0s} d5 {+0.01/1 0s} 6. Bd3 {+M-2767/0 0s}
Nc6 {+0.01/1 0s} 7. O-O {+M-2767/0 0s} Be7 {+0.01/1 0s}
8. c4 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nb4 {+0.01/1 0s} 9. Be2 {+M-2767/0 0s}
O-O {+0.01/1 0s} 10. Nc3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Bf5 {+0.01/1 0s}
11. a3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Nxc3 {+0.01/1 0s} 12. bxc3 {+M-2767/0
0s} Nc6 {+0.01/1 0s} 13. Re1 {+M-2767/0 0s} Re8 {+0.01/1
0s} 14. cxd5 {+M-2767/0 0s} Qxd5 {+0.01/1 0s} 15. Bf4
{+M-2767/0 0s} Bd6 {+0.01/1 0s} 16. c4 {+M-2767/0 0s} Qe4
{+0.01/1 0s} 17. Be3 {+M-2767/0 0s} Rad8 {+0.01/1 0s}
18. Ra2 {White last book move +M-2767/0 0s} h6 {+0.01/1 0s}
19. Qc1 {+0.33/18 5:33m} b6 {-0.19/17 5:08m} 20. Rd2
{+0.31/19 4:34m} Rb8 {(Sa5) -0.58/18 9:52m} 21. Bd1
{+0.46/18 6:58m} Na5 {-0.62/17 5:51m} 22. Ba4 {(Tde2)
+0.60/19 5:11m} Re6 {(Lg4) -0.63/18 6:18m} 23. Bc2
{+0.67/18 6:24m} Qg4 {-0.66/18 1:15m} 24. h3 {+0.67/19
2:32m} Qh5 {-0.67/18 3:39m} 25. c5 {+0.67/20 8:37m} Bxc2
{(bxc5) -0.60/18 5:07m} 26. cxd6 {(Dxc2) +0.93/18 3:29m}
Ba4 {(Le4) -0.65/19 5:09m} 27. Qxc7 {+1.19/19 4:27m} Rb7
{-0.76/19 6:47m} 28. d5 {+1.33/19 3:27m} Rg6 {-0.71/19
5:05m} 29. Qd8+ {+1.33/17 0s} Kh7 {-0.73/19 1:16m} 30. Kh1
{+1.26/19 6:54m} Bd7 {(Sb3) -0.99/19 10:37m} 31. Nh4
{+1.50/19 9:09m} Rf6 {-0.92/20 5:39m} 32. Bd4 {+1.50/20
3:24m} Qxh4 {-1.10/20 7:50m} 33. Bxf6 {+1.50/19 0s} Qxf6
{-1.10/21 3:24m} 34. Qxf6 {+1.29/23 5:38m} gxf6 {-0.89/24
1:13m} 35. Rc2 {+1.29/22 0s} Kg7 {-0.47/23 5:39m} 36. Rc7
{(Kh2) +1.27/23 4:04m} Kf8 {-0.57/23 5:48m} 37. Re4
{+1.17/25 5:55m} f5 {-0.57/25 5:40m} 38. Rh4 {+1.37/26
16:49m} Kg7 {-0.70/25 4:39m} 39. Kh2 {+1.23/25 3:36m} Kg6
{(a6) -0.57/24 3:58m} 40. Kg3 {+1.38/26 11:53m} Kg5
{-0.68/23 9:00m} 41. Rb4 {(f3) +1.72/25 15:39m} Kf6
{0.00/23 2:30m} 42. f4 {(Th4) +1.72/24 0s} Rxc7 {-1.00/24
5:39m} 43. dxc7 {+1.72/24 0s} Nb7 {(Ke7) -0.97/25 2:50m}
44. Kh4 {+1.73/25 2:17m} Nd6 {-1.05/24 2:22m} 45. Kh5
{+1.73/26 3:27m} Kg7 {-1.02/24 3:20m} 46. Rb3 {(Tb1)
+1.73/26 1:28m} Bc8 {-1.07/25 3:14m} 47. Rg3+ {+1.73/26
2:53m} Kh7 {-1.07/25 47s} 48. Kh4 {(Tc3) +1.73/27 3:10m}
Bb7 {-1.07/25 3:06m} 49. a4 {+1.73/26 2:01m} Nc8 {-1.03/25
3:00m} 50. Rd3 {+1.73/24 0s} Nd6 {-1.03/25 2:55m} 51. Kh5
{+1.72/25 4:08m} Bc8 {(a6) -1.03/25 2:49m} 52. Rb3 {(Te3)
+1.73/26 4:15m} Kg7 {-1.03/25 2:50m} 53. Rg3+ {+1.72/25
1:37m} Kh7 {-1.03/25 42s} 54. Rc3 {+1.72/26 1:52m} Ne4
{-1.03/25 2:55m} 55. Rc6 {(Te3) +2.30/25 9:33m} Kg7
{-1.36/25 4:24m} 56. Kh4 {+2.52/25 19:09m} Kf8 {-1.35/24
1:57m} 57. Rxh6 {(g4) +2.52/23 0s} Ke7 {-1.28/23 2:56m}
58. Rh8 {(g4) +2.52/22 0s} Kd7 {-1.78/22 2:14m } 59. Rf8
{+2.52/24 2:58m} Kxc7 {-1.88/21 3:06m} 60. Rxf7+ {+2.52/22
0s} Bd7 {-1.89/22 2:59m} 61. g4 {+2.52/21 0s} Kd6 {(fxg4)
-2.24/23 7:54m} 62. g5 {+4.66/19 15:18m} Bxa4 {(Le8)
-2.83/22 3:38m} 63. Rxf5 {+5.05/17 0s} Bb3 {-3.50/22 5:46m}
64. g6 {+5.05/21 54s} Bxd5 {-3.75/22 3:15m} 65. g7
{+5.05/22 1:55m} Ba2 {(Lc4) -4.26/23 8:30m} 66. Re5
{+5.05/20 0s} Nc5 {-4.29/21 3:55m} 67. Re8 {+5.05/18 6:00m}
Kd7 {-4.54/20 1:59m} 68. Re3 {(g8T) +5.05/18 0s} Nb7 {(b5)
-4.40/21 3:38m} 69. f5 {(Ta3) +5.09/20 7:58m} Nd6 {-6.41/23
6:00m } 70. Kg5 {+5.09/17 0s} a5 {(Lg8) -6.48/21 1:28m}
71. h4 {(f6) +5.33/15 1:19m } 1-0
ICC free vids with the Petroff:
Najditsch-Kramnik (Dortmund 2008) here surprisingly Kramnik got defeated (I think with a novelty in a 5.Nc3 line)
Comments by GM Ronen Har-Zvi
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Dortmund08/Round3/GOTD.html
Karjakin-Jakovenko (Aerosvit 2008), so a duel of two rising stars
Comments by GM Joel Benjamin
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Aerosvit08/Round4/GOTD.html
Anand-Kramnik (Corus 2008)
Comments by GM Ronen Har-Zvi
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Corus08/01_27_08/GOTD.html
Ivanchuk-Kramnik (Tal Memorial 2007)
Comments by GM Larry Christiansen
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Tal07/Round9/LarryC_GOTD.html
Anand-Kramnik (Mexico 2007)
Comments by GM Joel Benjamin
http://webcast.chessclub.com/Mexico07/GOTD/Round3/Benjamin.html
The last game no. 50 appears to be a marathon game, 80 moves so far and no end in sight. Rybka having some advantage but maybe Hiarcs can get a draw. I am too tired to wait for the finish, so just download all tomorrow morning if you like.
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/replay.htm
So we have more or less the same score than with generic books, but here not the result counts. When you check the games and what happened right after the openings you will detect a lot of them when the Rybka book already provided an edge and some when it gave already decisive advantage.
I will not have internet access from tomorrow morning till Tuesday or Wednesday and will then come up with an update on the generic set matches and first games against Zappa with own books (still not knowing if with Erdo´s or the one by Sedat).
Kind Regards
Heinz
"At tournament controls, we're talking about one move every three minutes, while at correspondence chess, we're talking about one move every 3 or 4 days."
i'll assume when u say "tourney time controls" u actually mean "classical" (i.e. 40 moves in 2 hrs). the average think time of a move is probably closer to ~6 min/move if we assume on avg the first 20 moves are played out of book. and i'm assuming an OC'd octal computer (even if no hw specs were specified).
"...unless, that is, you believe that Rybka 3 at tournament time controls is already occasionally starting to see the draw asymptote of chess."
correct, that is indeed what i believe. i just dont think the combo of a world-class book, plus the probability that a 30-ply search (or whatever the avg depth is reached in 3 days) will yield enough different moves compared to rybka's 22-ply (or whatever the avg depth is reached after 6-min on an OC'd octal) that the cumulative effect turns enough draws into a loss for "rybka 22-ply" to show such a huge elo increase between the two rybka's. oh, and did i mention partial 7-men EGTB are assumed to be used, also? ;-)
"...we are still at 50% decided games at the top levels."
the marathon matches of rybka against naum show a draw rate of 74%. this is w/o using super-books which would increase the draw rate even further.
"Instead, I think that the conclusion should be that the top five programs would have much higher elo and Rybka 3 would still be at 3150 or so."
they'd have a higher elo against their "non-rybka.ctg book" using counterparts (i.e. fritz 11 + rybka3.ctg vs. fritz 11 + fritz default book), and against other even weaker progs (e.g. junior), but not in a round-robin tournament consisting of the top 5 progs (e.g. rybka, naum, zappa, fruit, shredder, all using rybka.ctg). a great book acts as a great equalizer. it helps the weaker engine more than the stronger one. hence my estimate of rybka's lower rating (3100 vs 3150).
i'll assume when u say "tourney time controls" u actually mean "classical" (i.e. 40 moves in 2 hrs). the average think time of a move is probably closer to ~6 min/move if we assume on avg the first 20 moves are played out of book. and i'm assuming an OC'd octal computer (even if no hw specs were specified).
"...unless, that is, you believe that Rybka 3 at tournament time controls is already occasionally starting to see the draw asymptote of chess."
correct, that is indeed what i believe. i just dont think the combo of a world-class book, plus the probability that a 30-ply search (or whatever the avg depth is reached in 3 days) will yield enough different moves compared to rybka's 22-ply (or whatever the avg depth is reached after 6-min on an OC'd octal) that the cumulative effect turns enough draws into a loss for "rybka 22-ply" to show such a huge elo increase between the two rybka's. oh, and did i mention partial 7-men EGTB are assumed to be used, also? ;-)
"...we are still at 50% decided games at the top levels."
the marathon matches of rybka against naum show a draw rate of 74%. this is w/o using super-books which would increase the draw rate even further.
"Instead, I think that the conclusion should be that the top five programs would have much higher elo and Rybka 3 would still be at 3150 or so."
they'd have a higher elo against their "non-rybka.ctg book" using counterparts (i.e. fritz 11 + rybka3.ctg vs. fritz 11 + fritz default book), and against other even weaker progs (e.g. junior), but not in a round-robin tournament consisting of the top 5 progs (e.g. rybka, naum, zappa, fruit, shredder, all using rybka.ctg). a great book acts as a great equalizer. it helps the weaker engine more than the stronger one. hence my estimate of rybka's lower rating (3100 vs 3150).
Hi all :) ,
over the past months I used one of my quad machines to run a new marathon match 40/400 repeated (real time control):
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 11½½1½1½½½1½½½½½½½0½1½½½½½½½½½½1½½½½0½½½½½½1½1½½½½ 28.5/50
2 Naum 3.1 X64 4CPU 00½½0½0½½½0½½½½½½½1½0½½½½½½½½½½0½½½½1½½½½½½0½0½½½½ 21.5/50[/code]
I also extended the previous match to 50 games for better comparison:
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½½1½½½½½101½½½½0½½½1½11½½1011 29.5/50
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½½0½½½½½010½½½½1½½½0½00½½0100 20.5/50[/code]
The matches for Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU against Zappa Mexico II X64 and Zappa Mexico I upd. X64 with currently 42 games each will be expanded also to 50 games over the next two weeks.
All matches CEGT 40/400 can be replayed here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
A collection of the most interesting games (in my view) can be replayed here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/quadgames.htm
The download for the complete 40/400 games is available here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Best Regards
Heinz
over the past months I used one of my quad machines to run a new marathon match 40/400 repeated (real time control):
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 11½½1½1½½½1½½½½½½½0½1½½½½½½½½½½1½½½½0½½½½½½1½1½½½½ 28.5/50
2 Naum 3.1 X64 4CPU 00½½0½0½½½0½½½½½½½1½0½½½½½½½½½½0½½½½1½½½½½½0½0½½½½ 21.5/50[/code]
I also extended the previous match to 50 games for better comparison:
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½½1½½½½½101½½½½0½½½1½11½½1011 29.5/50
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½½0½½½½½010½½½½1½½½0½00½½0100 20.5/50[/code]
The matches for Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU against Zappa Mexico II X64 and Zappa Mexico I upd. X64 with currently 42 games each will be expanded also to 50 games over the next two weeks.
All matches CEGT 40/400 can be replayed here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
A collection of the most interesting games (in my view) can be replayed here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/quadgames.htm
The download for the complete 40/400 games is available here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Best Regards
Heinz
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
This week we all were waiting for Hiarcs 12. It came late - but not too late for our lists. See the first results here. The other new engines in our lists are Bright 0.3a and Garbochess 2.1.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad was not updated this week. Interim results as usual in our forum: http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
- with first Hiarcs 12 ShPV 4CPU games
- more ready games with Fruit 2.4 Beta A 4CPU
- and games with Zappa Mexico II, DS 11 and Glaurung 2.01 x64 all 4CPU
There is a close fight between Fruit and DS 11 now four the fourth position in the quad rating list with still a lot of games to come including matches for both against the new Hiarcs.
...and the result for the 3rd marathon match:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½½1½½½½½101½½½½0½½½1½ 23.5/42
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½½0½½½½½010½½½½1½½½0½ 18.5/42
A draw percentage of almost 80% but a better result than the Zappa versions against Rybka.
40 / 20:
This week we added more than 1900 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 234.695 games!
New engines:
We started the matches with Hiarcs 12 2CPU with default settings as our time control isn´t one minute/move. We will later test Sharpen PV too.
Hiarcs 12 2CPU reached 2910 elos after 287 games. This is +38 elo above Hiarcs 11.1 2CPU - but we do not have enough games for a conclusion. We´ll see what happens with more games. The blitz games are much better!
Another good result we had with Bright 0.3a 2CPU: The engine has 35 elos more than version 2.0c after 544 games (2815)!
Garbochess 2.1 started with very good 2628 elos after 259 games. This is very close to Wildcat 7.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for some engines we tested first last week:
21 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 4CPU 2949 +29 -29 299 games (-21)
32 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU 2917 +19 -19 832 games (3)
132 SmarThink 1.10 Moscow 2759 +19 -19 865 games (+-0)
194 WildCat 8.0 2664 +20 -20 836 games (+2)
417 Rotor 0.2 2268 +39 -39 216 (now behind 0.1)
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated too. We made over 3600 games and the list is based now on 291.877 games.
Some new interesting entries are:
18 Hiarcs 12 4CPU 2968 +26 -26 400 (here in front of Naum, Shredder and Fruit)
33 Hiarcs 12 2CPU 2940 +27 -27 390
55 Hiarcs 12 1CPU 2893 +52 -52 100 and
100 Bright 0.3a 2CPU 2821 +33 -33 300
141 Bright 0.3a 1CPU 2763 +28 -28 420
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
This week we all were waiting for Hiarcs 12. It came late - but not too late for our lists. See the first results here. The other new engines in our lists are Bright 0.3a and Garbochess 2.1.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad was not updated this week. Interim results as usual in our forum: http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
- with first Hiarcs 12 ShPV 4CPU games
- more ready games with Fruit 2.4 Beta A 4CPU
- and games with Zappa Mexico II, DS 11 and Glaurung 2.01 x64 all 4CPU
There is a close fight between Fruit and DS 11 now four the fourth position in the quad rating list with still a lot of games to come including matches for both against the new Hiarcs.
...and the result for the 3rd marathon match:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½½1½½½½½101½½½½0½½½1½ 23.5/42
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½½0½½½½½010½½½½1½½½0½ 18.5/42
A draw percentage of almost 80% but a better result than the Zappa versions against Rybka.
40 / 20:
This week we added more than 1900 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 234.695 games!
New engines:
We started the matches with Hiarcs 12 2CPU with default settings as our time control isn´t one minute/move. We will later test Sharpen PV too.
Hiarcs 12 2CPU reached 2910 elos after 287 games. This is +38 elo above Hiarcs 11.1 2CPU - but we do not have enough games for a conclusion. We´ll see what happens with more games. The blitz games are much better!
Another good result we had with Bright 0.3a 2CPU: The engine has 35 elos more than version 2.0c after 544 games (2815)!
Garbochess 2.1 started with very good 2628 elos after 259 games. This is very close to Wildcat 7.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for some engines we tested first last week:
21 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 4CPU 2949 +29 -29 299 games (-21)
32 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU 2917 +19 -19 832 games (3)
132 SmarThink 1.10 Moscow 2759 +19 -19 865 games (+-0)
194 WildCat 8.0 2664 +20 -20 836 games (+2)
417 Rotor 0.2 2268 +39 -39 216 (now behind 0.1)
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated too. We made over 3600 games and the list is based now on 291.877 games.
Some new interesting entries are:
18 Hiarcs 12 4CPU 2968 +26 -26 400 (here in front of Naum, Shredder and Fruit)
33 Hiarcs 12 2CPU 2940 +27 -27 390
55 Hiarcs 12 1CPU 2893 +52 -52 100 and
100 Bright 0.3a 2CPU 2821 +33 -33 300
141 Bright 0.3a 1CPU 2763 +28 -28 420
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad was updated with more Fruit 2.4 games. After 200 games it has a rating of 2957 - this is place 4 - but we need of course another 300 games!. Interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
Two wins for Naum now, one more for Rybka and five draws out of the past eight games. The match is closer now.
40 / 20:
This week we added over 2000 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 232.787 games!
New engines:
New in our list are Fruit 2.4 Beta 4CPU, Wildcat 8 and Arasan 10.3.
Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 4CPU reached 2970 elos after 149 games. In comparison to the Quad-List it´s a bit too high. We´ll see what happens with more games.
Another good result we had with Wildcat 8: The engine has 34 elos more than version 7 after 628 games (2661)!
Arasan 10.3 x64 2CPU has 26 points less than version 10.2. Both engines have an error margin of +-30 so maybe they are very close and we need a lot of more games to see which is stronger.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for some engines we tested first last week:
As you see: under 500 games one match can make big differences and it´s not possible to compare sure versions with closed strengh!
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated too. We made over 2500 games and the list is based now on 285.718 games. I was the first update Gerhard managed - tnx !
Two entries are interesting:
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Happy Easter!
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad was updated with more Fruit 2.4 games. After 200 games it has a rating of 2957 - this is place 4 - but we need of course another 300 games!. Interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½½1½½½½½101½½½½0½ 21.0/38
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½½0½½½½½010½½½½1½ 17.0/38 Two wins for Naum now, one more for Rybka and five draws out of the past eight games. The match is closer now.
40 / 20:
This week we added over 2000 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 232.787 games!
New engines:
New in our list are Fruit 2.4 Beta 4CPU, Wildcat 8 and Arasan 10.3.
Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 4CPU reached 2970 elos after 149 games. In comparison to the Quad-List it´s a bit too high. We´ll see what happens with more games.
Another good result we had with Wildcat 8: The engine has 34 elos more than version 7 after 628 games (2661)!
Arasan 10.3 x64 2CPU has 26 points less than version 10.2. Both engines have an error margin of +-30 so maybe they are very close and we need a lot of more games to see which is stronger.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for some engines we tested first last week:
36 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU +2914 20 -20 782 games (+6)
111 Thinker 5.1c x64 p 2783 +26 -26 491 games (+8)
132 SmarThink 1.10 Moscow 2759 +19 -19 825 games (-5)
247 Hamsters 0.6 w32 2603 +17 -17 1021 games (-2)
292 Alfil 8.11 2549 +30 -30 400 games (+8)
387 Romichess P3K 2402 +27 -27 446 games (-9)
389 Homer 2.01pre3 2397 +31 -31 354 games (+10)As you see: under 500 games one match can make big differences and it´s not possible to compare sure versions with closed strengh!
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated too. We made over 2500 games and the list is based now on 285.718 games. I was the first update Gerhard managed - tnx !
Two entries are interesting:
37 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU 2928 +16 -16 1140
39 Fruit 2.4 Beta B x64 2CPU 2922 +33 -33 300
now here version A is stonger too
42 Fritz 11.1 2918 +11 -11 2570 (-9) but still stronger!
47 Fritz 11 2907 +8- 8 5040 A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Happy Easter!
Werner
CEGT Team
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad will be updated again next week. Interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
You will also find first results with Fruit 2.4 Beta A 4CPU. More results with this private version from Ryan in the other lists!
40 / 20:
This week we added nearly 2600 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 230.704 games!
New engines:
New in our list are Fruit 2.4 Beta, (Passive)Thinker 5.1c and Homer 2.01pre3.
Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU reached 2908 elos after 702 games. This is the 5th place for the 2CPU engines behind Deep Shredder 11. The engine is now 64 bit too and SMP! From startposition I had 1.14 times more kns for the single engine in comparison to 32 bit version. The effectivity of SMP was not so easy to measure. Report comes next Sunday. Here are the different Fruit versions in our list:
Another big surprice was the result of (Passive)Thinker 5.1c 64bit: With 2775 elos after 401 games this engine is +66 points in front of the (Active) version!
We started to test Homer 2.01pre3, the version which plays very strong in Leo´s tournament. But the start rating here is not so good. I tried to make some matches under Winboard too but with not so good results I have had with same starting positions under Arena!
Updated engines:
We have updated results for some engines we tested first last week:
Our best MP Versions list is now looking like that:
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list updated yesterday. We made a lot of blitz games with the different new Fruit versions to decide which will be included in 40/20 and 40/120 lists. Here is a list of the results:
Other highlights are the results of Smarthink 1.1 Moscow and Fritz 11.1 which is 20 points ahead of the regular version!
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad will be updated again next week. Interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½½1½½½½½1 17.5/30
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½½0½½½½½0 12.5/30 You will also find first results with Fruit 2.4 Beta A 4CPU. More results with this private version from Ryan in the other lists!
40 / 20:
This week we added nearly 2600 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 230.704 games!
New engines:
New in our list are Fruit 2.4 Beta, (Passive)Thinker 5.1c and Homer 2.01pre3.
Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU reached 2908 elos after 702 games. This is the 5th place for the 2CPU engines behind Deep Shredder 11. The engine is now 64 bit too and SMP! From startposition I had 1.14 times more kns for the single engine in comparison to 32 bit version. The effectivity of SMP was not so easy to measure. Report comes next Sunday. Here are the different Fruit versions in our list:
no Program Elo + - Games
19 Fruit 2.3.4n w32 2CPU 2955 67 67 71
30 Fruit 2.4 Beta A w32 2CPU 2919 51 51 100
35 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU 2908 21 21 702
49 Fruit 2.4 Beta B x64 2CPU 2878 85 85 50
52 Fruit 2.4 Beta A w32 1CPU 2875 60 60 63
67 Fruit 2.4 Beta B w32 2CPU 2846 70 70 50
71 Fruit 2.3.3f Beta 2839 14 14 1546Another big surprice was the result of (Passive)Thinker 5.1c 64bit: With 2775 elos after 401 games this engine is +66 points in front of the (Active) version!
We started to test Homer 2.01pre3, the version which plays very strong in Leo´s tournament. But the start rating here is not so good. I tried to make some matches under Winboard too but with not so good results I have had with same starting positions under Arena!
Updated engines:
We have updated results for some engines we tested first last week:
3 Zappa Mexico II x64 4CPU 3022 +19 -19 743 games (+11)
45 Naum 3.0 w32 1CPU 2886 +21 -21 663 games (-1)
70 Zappa Mexico II w32 1CPU 2842 +22 -22 576 games (-6)
125 SmarThink 1.10 Moscow 2764 +20 -20 754 games (-16)Our best MP Versions list is now looking like that:
1 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 4CPU 3084
2 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 2CPU WM-2007 3052
3 Zappa Mexico II x64 4CPU 3022
4 Zappa Mexico x64 4CPU 3001
5 Naum 3.0 x64 4CPU 3001
6 Deep Shredder 11 x64 4CPU 2963
7 Naum 3.0 x64 2CPU 2962
8 Zappa Mexico II x64 2CPU 2958
9 Deep Shredder 11 x64 2CPU 2939
10 Deep Fritz 10.1 4CPU 2931
11 Hiarcs 11.2 4CPU 2925
12 Toga II 1.4 Beta5c 4CPU 2911
13 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU 290840 / 4:
Our blitz-list updated yesterday. We made a lot of blitz games with the different new Fruit versions to decide which will be included in 40/20 and 40/120 lists. Here is a list of the results:
no Program Elo + - Games
21 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 4CPU 2959 18 18 950
32 Fruit 2.4 Beta B x64 4CPU 2941 26 26 450
39 Fruit 2.4 Beta B x64 2CPU 2922 33 33 300
44 Fruit 2.4 Beta A x64 2CPU 2918 20 20 720
71 Fruit 2.3.3f Test Beta 2857 10 10 3100
79 Fruit 2.4 Beta A w32 1CPU 2851 23 23 550
93 Fruit 051103 2827 13 13 1696
96 Fruit 061115b 2824 17 17 1020
97 Fruit 2.4 Beta B w32 1CPU 2823 32 32 300 Other highlights are the results of Smarthink 1.1 Moscow and Fritz 11.1 which is 20 points ahead of the regular version!
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links. And Zappa is living - at least in our lists - see more on 40/20 list!
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad list is updated with new results of Naum 3 x64 4CPU. The engine has now 3029 elo after 423 games. This is place 2 in the list - 69 points behind Rybka - and still 102 points over version 2.2 :D . More interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
7 games more and 7 more draws.
40 / 20:
This week we added nearly 1700 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 227.480 games!
New engines:
New in our list is Zappa Mexico II x64 4CPU with a rating of 3011 after 543 games. Its the 2nd place after Rybka and around 10 points in front of previous version and Naum 3 x64 4CPU. And not to forget: it´s the first engine winning a match against Rybka 2.32a x64 2CPU!
Another new engine in the list is SmarThink 1.1 Moscow with 2780 elos in 412 games. This is a gain of 80 points in comparison to version 1.0 (32bit). So I think in CIS the engine did not have much luck :) Perhaps the 64bit version can break 2800 elo barrier ?
Updated engines:
The main updated engine is (Active)Thinker 5.1c x64 with 2711 elos (+15) after 420 games. This is a gain of 146 points over version 4.7a. We have too version 5.0b in the list but with only 110 games. As I read in CCC the (Passive) Thinker would be even stronger against chess-engines I will test this version too later.
We have updated results for a few more engines from last week:
Our best MP Versions list is now looking like that:
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was not updated. See more activities as usual in our blitz-forum with new results of Smathink Moscow, Garbochess 2 and Deep Shredder 11 w32 4CPU.
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links. And Zappa is living - at least in our lists - see more on 40/20 list!
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad list is updated with new results of Naum 3 x64 4CPU. The engine has now 3029 elo after 423 games. This is place 2 in the list - 69 points behind Rybka - and still 102 points over version 2.2 :D . More interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½½½½½½½½ 12.5/22
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½½½½½½½½ 9.5/227 games more and 7 more draws.
40 / 20:
This week we added nearly 1700 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 227.480 games!
New engines:
New in our list is Zappa Mexico II x64 4CPU with a rating of 3011 after 543 games. Its the 2nd place after Rybka and around 10 points in front of previous version and Naum 3 x64 4CPU. And not to forget: it´s the first engine winning a match against Rybka 2.32a x64 2CPU!
Another new engine in the list is SmarThink 1.1 Moscow with 2780 elos in 412 games. This is a gain of 80 points in comparison to version 1.0 (32bit). So I think in CIS the engine did not have much luck :) Perhaps the 64bit version can break 2800 elo barrier ?
Updated engines:
The main updated engine is (Active)Thinker 5.1c x64 with 2711 elos (+15) after 420 games. This is a gain of 146 points over version 4.7a. We have too version 5.0b in the list but with only 110 games. As I read in CCC the (Passive) Thinker would be even stronger against chess-engines I will test this version too later.
We have updated results for a few more engines from last week:
41 Naum 3.0 w32 1CPU 2887 +23 -23 537 games (-5 points)
61 Zappa Mexico II w32 1CPU 2848 +27 -27 374 games (-2 points)
131 Frenzee Feb08 x64 2741 +24 -24 569 games (+3 points)
277 Arasan 10.2 x64 2CPU 2554 +29 -29 398 games (+6 points)Our best MP Versions list is now looking like that:
1 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 4CPU 3083
2 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 2CPU WM-2007 3050
3 Zappa Mexico II x64 4CPU 3010
4 Zappa Mexico x64 4CPU 3000
5 Naum 3.0 x64 4CPU 2999 40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was not updated. See more activities as usual in our blitz-forum with new results of Smathink Moscow, Garbochess 2 and Deep Shredder 11 w32 4CPU.
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad list is updated with first results of Naum 3 x64 4CPU. The engine reached 3033 elo after 308 games. This is place 2 in the list - 67 points behind Rybka - and 105 points over version 2.2 :D . More interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
We have a draw percentage of 80% so far.
40 / 20:
This week we added nearly 2000 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 226.450 games!
New engines:
Last week I forgot to mention 2 new entries: Naum 3.0 w32 1CPU and Zappa Mexico II w32 1 CPU. Both engines have now a more stable rating:
39 Naum 3.0 w32 1CPU 2892 +25 -25 457 games
60 Zappa Mexico II w32 1CPU 2850 +34 -34 234 games
Another new engine in our list is (Active)Thinker 5.1c 64bit. Thanks Lance for the bugfix. Now with ponder off possible we will include the new version in our list. At the moment we only have 70 games - so a lot of things can happen till next sunday.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for a lot of engines from last week:
8 Naum 3.0 x64 4CPU 2998 (+72 to version 2.2 and -5 points)
14 Naum 3.0 x64 2CPU 2963 (+79 to version 2.2 and +-0 points)
86 Loop M1-P 1CPU 2810 (-2 to Loop 10.32f)
131 Frenzee Feb08 x64 2738 (+65 to Dez07 version and +20 points)
177 Crafty 22.0 x64 2CPU 2672 (+25 to version 21.6!)
273 Arasan 10.2 x64 2CPU 2558 (+57 to version 10.0 and lost 26 points)
In our best MP-List the places behind Rybka change always between Naum and Zappa and in our best Single-List Naum 3 has the 3rd place behind Fritz 11.
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated yesterday too. We have 4760 new games in our Database with now 276.182 games.
Interesting entries are:
14 Naum 3.0 x64 4CPU 3008 +23 -23 524 games
26 Toga II 1.4.1SE 4CPU 2954 +20 -20 700 games
77 Naum 2.1 w32 2CPU 2835 +16 -16 1110 games
See more activities as usual in our blitz-forum.
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120 Quad list is updated with first results of Naum 3 x64 4CPU. The engine reached 3033 elo after 308 games. This is place 2 in the list - 67 points behind Rybka - and 105 points over version 2.2 :D . More interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. Interim standing from the 3rd match:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1½½½½½1½ 9.0/15
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0½½½½½0½ 6.0/15 We have a draw percentage of 80% so far.
40 / 20:
This week we added nearly 2000 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 226.450 games!
New engines:
Last week I forgot to mention 2 new entries: Naum 3.0 w32 1CPU and Zappa Mexico II w32 1 CPU. Both engines have now a more stable rating:
39 Naum 3.0 w32 1CPU 2892 +25 -25 457 games
60 Zappa Mexico II w32 1CPU 2850 +34 -34 234 games
Another new engine in our list is (Active)Thinker 5.1c 64bit. Thanks Lance for the bugfix. Now with ponder off possible we will include the new version in our list. At the moment we only have 70 games - so a lot of things can happen till next sunday.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for a lot of engines from last week:
8 Naum 3.0 x64 4CPU 2998 (+72 to version 2.2 and -5 points)
14 Naum 3.0 x64 2CPU 2963 (+79 to version 2.2 and +-0 points)
86 Loop M1-P 1CPU 2810 (-2 to Loop 10.32f)
131 Frenzee Feb08 x64 2738 (+65 to Dez07 version and +20 points)
177 Crafty 22.0 x64 2CPU 2672 (+25 to version 21.6!)
273 Arasan 10.2 x64 2CPU 2558 (+57 to version 10.0 and lost 26 points)
In our best MP-List the places behind Rybka change always between Naum and Zappa and in our best Single-List Naum 3 has the 3rd place behind Fritz 11.
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated yesterday too. We have 4760 new games in our Database with now 276.182 games.
Interesting entries are:
14 Naum 3.0 x64 4CPU 3008 +23 -23 524 games
26 Toga II 1.4.1SE 4CPU 2954 +20 -20 700 games
77 Naum 2.1 w32 2CPU 2835 +16 -16 1110 games
See more activities as usual in our blitz-forum.
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
[u]40 / 120:[/u]
Our 40/120 Quad list is updated with first results of Naum 3 x64 4CPU. The engine reached 3038 elo after 192 games. This is place 2 in the list - 66 points behind Rybka. More interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. The 2nd one is finished:
and the 3rd had just begun:
There are also more matches with Naum 3 x64 4CPU.
40 / 20:
This week we added more than 2300 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 224.760 games!
New engines:
The main entry this week is Naum 3 x64 4CPU. After 825 games we have a very good rating of 3003 - 40 more than for 2CPU version! This is the 2nd place just in front of Zappa at the moment and 84 points behind Rybka.
We will not forget to mention 3 other new entries in our list:
- Fruit 2.3.4n w32 2CPU with a start rating of 2947 after 71 games;
- Arasan 10.2 x64 2CPU with 2584 elos after 250 games (+80 to Arasan 10.0 is impressive!)
- Crafty 22.0 x64 2CPU is also new with 2660 elos after 59 games. This would be stronger than 21.6 but we must delete these games as Crafty handicaps other dual engines in endgame when accessing tbs. See more here: http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_view=threads&p=176793&t=19749
Perhaps you will find the entry at the end of the list. Michael will correct the database later.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for Frenzee Feb08 x64 and Romichess P3K:
146 Frenzee Feb08 x64 2718 +30 -30 347games (+45 to Dez07 version)
369 Romichess P3K 2408 +31 -31 346games (now strongest Romichess)
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated yesterday
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are now online and can be found under the attached links.
[u]40 / 120:[/u]
Our 40/120 Quad list is updated with first results of Naum 3 x64 4CPU. The engine reached 3038 elo after 192 games. This is place 2 in the list - 66 points behind Rybka. More interim results as usual in our forum:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=9
Here you will find more results from our CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400. The 2nd one is finished:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½0½½½½½½½11½½½1½1½½10½11½111½½101½½½½1½½ 26.5/42
2 Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU 0½½1½½½½½½½00½½½0½0½½01½00½000½½010½½½½0½½ 15.5/42and the 3rd had just begun:
CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½½½1 5.0/8
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½½½0 3.0/8There are also more matches with Naum 3 x64 4CPU.
40 / 20:
This week we added more than 2300 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 224.760 games!
New engines:
The main entry this week is Naum 3 x64 4CPU. After 825 games we have a very good rating of 3003 - 40 more than for 2CPU version! This is the 2nd place just in front of Zappa at the moment and 84 points behind Rybka.
We will not forget to mention 3 other new entries in our list:
- Fruit 2.3.4n w32 2CPU with a start rating of 2947 after 71 games;
- Arasan 10.2 x64 2CPU with 2584 elos after 250 games (+80 to Arasan 10.0 is impressive!)
- Crafty 22.0 x64 2CPU is also new with 2660 elos after 59 games. This would be stronger than 21.6 but we must delete these games as Crafty handicaps other dual engines in endgame when accessing tbs. See more here: http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic_view=threads&p=176793&t=19749
Perhaps you will find the entry at the end of the list. Michael will correct the database later.
Updated engines:
We have updated results for Frenzee Feb08 x64 and Romichess P3K:
146 Frenzee Feb08 x64 2718 +30 -30 347games (+45 to Dez07 version)
369 Romichess P3K 2408 +31 -31 346games (now strongest Romichess)
40 / 4:
Our blitz-list was updated yesterday
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
Topic 2nd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 repeated (final)
By Heinz van Kempen
Date 2008-02-23 16:03
Hi all :) ,
the 3rd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 repeated feature the two times champion Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU and Naum 3 X64 4CPU, where I expect a tougher fight compared to the Rybka vs. Zappa matches. We will see after the next update in one week.
Games are available for replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and for download here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½ 3.0/5
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½ 2.0/5[/code]
Change in this match is that I still use Shredder Classic GUI and play with colors reversed, but will play now with a selected set from Harry´s 8 moves .bkt book. This will include mostly lines currently en vogue in GM tournaments according to "The Week in Chess", but also some classical lines. The preselected sets will change from time to time. You can also express wishes for variations featured and Harry will include them probably if they are sound and not already included like almost all important stuff.
Games are available for replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and for download here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Best Wishes
Heinz
the 3rd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 repeated feature the two times champion Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU and Naum 3 X64 4CPU, where I expect a tougher fight compared to the Rybka vs. Zappa matches. We will see after the next update in one week.
Games are available for replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and for download here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½½½ 3.0/5
2 Naum 3 X64 4CPU 0½½½½ 2.0/5[/code]
Change in this match is that I still use Shredder Classic GUI and play with colors reversed, but will play now with a selected set from Harry´s 8 moves .bkt book. This will include mostly lines currently en vogue in GM tournaments according to "The Week in Chess", but also some classical lines. The preselected sets will change from time to time. You can also express wishes for variations featured and Harry will include them probably if they are sound and not already included like almost all important stuff.
Games are available for replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and for download here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Best Wishes
Heinz
Topic 2nd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 repeated (final)
By Heinz van Kempen
Date 2008-02-23 16:01
Hi all :) ,
the second CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 rep. is finished:
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½0½½½½½½½11½½½1½1½½10½11½111½½101½½½½1½½ 26.5/42
2 Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU 0½½1½½½½½½½00½½½0½0½½01½00½000½½010½½½½0½½ 15.5/42[/code]
For comparison again the first match with the same amount of games:
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU ½½½½½1½½01½001½1½½½½½1½½1½½½1½½½1½½11½½½½½ 24.5/42
2 Zappa Mexico I upd X64 4CPU ½½½½½0½½10½110½0½½½½½0½½0½½½0½½½0½½00½½½½½ 17.5/42[/code]
Zappa Mexico II is only a tiny bit better in our 40/20 ratinglist, over the non-updated Zappa Mexico I version (although there seems to be hardly any difference in performance in other rating lists) not enough to exclude some statistical noise. I guess that maybe Zappa Mexico I upd X64 4CPU was a bit lucky and Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU not. The only difference is that Zappa Mexico I upd X64 4CPU got four draws more (29 instead of 25).
Both Zappa versions could get 3 wins each, so only six losses for Rybka in totally 84 games (almost incredible). Rybka won 24 games out of 84, 54 draws (64,28%) and like already mentioned 6 losses totally.
Although I know that 84 games are not too many it seems likely to me now that Zappa´s alleged huge performance with a lot of time is only a myth. Here I refer to conditions with short general books testing pure engine strength in the best possible way. Shorter matches with ten games only and adapted books are not so interesting for me and I never draw conclusions from them.
Games are available for replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and for download here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Some remarks about the lines and novelties from the match Rybka vs. Zappa Mexico II
1. Ruy Lopez Marshall Attack (games 3 and 4) currently again en vogue in human top level games. Both engines opt for 11..Bb7 what is not played so often by the GM´s. Maybe Naum will play 11...c6 like in the game from Anand vs. Aronian giving a short win for Black. This game was just finished in Linares and analysed completely by five top engines (see Naum vs. Rybka posting).
2. A very popular Petroff line in games 5 and 6. It rarely happens that top engines play the same as the GM´s until move 20 after only 8 moves pregiven. Rybka played a novelty 20.Rc1, but this also led to a draw like 20.Rxg6 in Anand vs. Sokolov, Dortmund 1999
3. Ruy Lopez closed line (games 9 and 10). While Zappa opts for 9.h3 which is still the main line, Rybka played 9.d4 (I only got draws with that one in CC games). At move 14 Rybka plays a novelty with 14.Nbd2 instead of 14.Nc3. I do not like it too much, because the White King remains a bit exposed, but we already know that Rybka does not always care about this when there is compensation. Anyway the game ended in a draw.
4. Sicilian Najdorf Poisoned Pawn (games 19 and 20). This line was very popular before almost all changed to 6.Be3 in the 90`s (6.Be3 Ng4 is also featured in games 17 and 18 and there are also the lines with 6..e5 and 6..e6 in Harry´s book). Anyway the Poisoned Pawn variation is an ultra sharp line. Maybe most GM´s also dropped it now because they think that it is also "analysed to death". I guess engines will still find novelties with more games from this one.
5. Semislaw defence - another sharp line currently played in many games. Here the one where White sacrifices a pawn and Black plays h6 and g5 chasing away the White bishop like in Carlsson vs. Anand. Rybka opted for one main line with 9.Be2 and Zappa for the other one with 9.Se5 and 10.h4 which are both very interesting. Zappa played a novelty 10..Bb4 instead of the usual 10..Nbd7, looking not very promising and also lost the game.
So far we have novelties, but nothing spectacular or looking promising. This is partly due to that I also chose sidelines not played too much at top level (what will change with the Naum Marathon match against Rybka), partly due to the fact that top GM also will have detected a lot already with the help of the engines.
Best Regards
Heinz
the second CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 rep. is finished:
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½0½½½½½½½11½½½1½1½½10½11½111½½101½½½½1½½ 26.5/42
2 Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU 0½½1½½½½½½½00½½½0½0½½01½00½000½½010½½½½0½½ 15.5/42[/code]
For comparison again the first match with the same amount of games:
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU ½½½½½1½½01½001½1½½½½½1½½1½½½1½½½1½½11½½½½½ 24.5/42
2 Zappa Mexico I upd X64 4CPU ½½½½½0½½10½110½0½½½½½0½½0½½½0½½½0½½00½½½½½ 17.5/42[/code]
Zappa Mexico II is only a tiny bit better in our 40/20 ratinglist, over the non-updated Zappa Mexico I version (although there seems to be hardly any difference in performance in other rating lists) not enough to exclude some statistical noise. I guess that maybe Zappa Mexico I upd X64 4CPU was a bit lucky and Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU not. The only difference is that Zappa Mexico I upd X64 4CPU got four draws more (29 instead of 25).
Both Zappa versions could get 3 wins each, so only six losses for Rybka in totally 84 games (almost incredible). Rybka won 24 games out of 84, 54 draws (64,28%) and like already mentioned 6 losses totally.
Although I know that 84 games are not too many it seems likely to me now that Zappa´s alleged huge performance with a lot of time is only a myth. Here I refer to conditions with short general books testing pure engine strength in the best possible way. Shorter matches with ten games only and adapted books are not so interesting for me and I never draw conclusions from them.
Games are available for replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and for download here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Some remarks about the lines and novelties from the match Rybka vs. Zappa Mexico II
1. Ruy Lopez Marshall Attack (games 3 and 4) currently again en vogue in human top level games. Both engines opt for 11..Bb7 what is not played so often by the GM´s. Maybe Naum will play 11...c6 like in the game from Anand vs. Aronian giving a short win for Black. This game was just finished in Linares and analysed completely by five top engines (see Naum vs. Rybka posting).
2. A very popular Petroff line in games 5 and 6. It rarely happens that top engines play the same as the GM´s until move 20 after only 8 moves pregiven. Rybka played a novelty 20.Rc1, but this also led to a draw like 20.Rxg6 in Anand vs. Sokolov, Dortmund 1999
3. Ruy Lopez closed line (games 9 and 10). While Zappa opts for 9.h3 which is still the main line, Rybka played 9.d4 (I only got draws with that one in CC games). At move 14 Rybka plays a novelty with 14.Nbd2 instead of 14.Nc3. I do not like it too much, because the White King remains a bit exposed, but we already know that Rybka does not always care about this when there is compensation. Anyway the game ended in a draw.
4. Sicilian Najdorf Poisoned Pawn (games 19 and 20). This line was very popular before almost all changed to 6.Be3 in the 90`s (6.Be3 Ng4 is also featured in games 17 and 18 and there are also the lines with 6..e5 and 6..e6 in Harry´s book). Anyway the Poisoned Pawn variation is an ultra sharp line. Maybe most GM´s also dropped it now because they think that it is also "analysed to death". I guess engines will still find novelties with more games from this one.
5. Semislaw defence - another sharp line currently played in many games. Here the one where White sacrifices a pawn and Black plays h6 and g5 chasing away the White bishop like in Carlsson vs. Anand. Rybka opted for one main line with 9.Be2 and Zappa for the other one with 9.Se5 and 10.h4 which are both very interesting. Zappa played a novelty 10..Bb4 instead of the usual 10..Nbd7, looking not very promising and also lost the game.
So far we have novelties, but nothing spectacular or looking promising. This is partly due to that I also chose sidelines not played too much at top level (what will change with the Naum Marathon match against Rybka), partly due to the fact that top GM also will have detected a lot already with the help of the engines.
Best Regards
Heinz
Topic Naum 3 against Rybka 2.3.2 for CEGT 40/120 Quad List (final)
By Heinz van Kempen
Date 2008-02-22 22:35
Hola Debaser :-),
yes, it seems a bit strange to have ponder stats when no ponder on games are played like the Swedes are doing. As far as I know they take the games with comments and check the main lines, what move is expected, that means one move earlier. Real ponder on would mean to see that an engine already is on ply 18 for example when it is it´s turn again in a match when two computers are linked with a cable.
To show what I am doing take a look here for a first completed game where Anand lost with White pieces against Aronian, choosing the Marshall attack just finished in Linares. There are more games in progress and I will give an update on Sunday or Monday. To gain conclusions and interesting insight, we will need many dozens of this high end games and all kinds of games, that means positional, tactical, endgames and so on. If you like to have a special game analyzed, just post it and I will add it. Might also be a classical one with top players. The test is done with the complete analysis feature in Zappa 64-bit GUI, where one engine after the other calculates the same position (not all at once). Used is a dual core machine AMD X64 4200+, 1024 MB hash, 3 minutes per engine for each ply and engines are 64-bit versions. This is because the Quad machines are busy with the CEGT 40/120 quad rating list and the Marathon matches 40/400. But maybe I will use Quad machines later.
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/gm.htm
We have 68 plies in this game (category tactical) and you have to bear in mind, that many moves in the end were forced, leading to mate.
Statistically still insignificiant, but just for fun here the first stats in category tactical:
Engines choosing the same move than Rybka 2.3.2a mp after three minutes:
Hiarcs 11.2 mp -- 46 identical moves
Zappa Mexico II mp -- 45 identical moves
Naum 3 mp -- 43 identical moves
Deep Shredder 11 -- 40 identical moves
When you check the main lines given I think that so far none of those engines seems to have similar output than Rybka. I will add Deep Fritz 11 to this tests as soon as it is out.
If you have fun to do so, you could also check the GM´s playing most similar to which engines after more games.
Best Wishes
Heinz
yes, it seems a bit strange to have ponder stats when no ponder on games are played like the Swedes are doing. As far as I know they take the games with comments and check the main lines, what move is expected, that means one move earlier. Real ponder on would mean to see that an engine already is on ply 18 for example when it is it´s turn again in a match when two computers are linked with a cable.
To show what I am doing take a look here for a first completed game where Anand lost with White pieces against Aronian, choosing the Marshall attack just finished in Linares. There are more games in progress and I will give an update on Sunday or Monday. To gain conclusions and interesting insight, we will need many dozens of this high end games and all kinds of games, that means positional, tactical, endgames and so on. If you like to have a special game analyzed, just post it and I will add it. Might also be a classical one with top players. The test is done with the complete analysis feature in Zappa 64-bit GUI, where one engine after the other calculates the same position (not all at once). Used is a dual core machine AMD X64 4200+, 1024 MB hash, 3 minutes per engine for each ply and engines are 64-bit versions. This is because the Quad machines are busy with the CEGT 40/120 quad rating list and the Marathon matches 40/400. But maybe I will use Quad machines later.
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/gm.htm
We have 68 plies in this game (category tactical) and you have to bear in mind, that many moves in the end were forced, leading to mate.
Statistically still insignificiant, but just for fun here the first stats in category tactical:
Engines choosing the same move than Rybka 2.3.2a mp after three minutes:
Hiarcs 11.2 mp -- 46 identical moves
Zappa Mexico II mp -- 45 identical moves
Naum 3 mp -- 43 identical moves
Deep Shredder 11 -- 40 identical moves
When you check the main lines given I think that so far none of those engines seems to have similar output than Rybka. I will add Deep Fritz 11 to this tests as soon as it is out.
If you have fun to do so, you could also check the GM´s playing most similar to which engines after more games.
Best Wishes
Heinz
Topic Naum 3 against Rybka 2.3.2 for CEGT 40/120 Quad List (final)
By Heinz van Kempen
Date 2008-02-22 19:19
Hi Harvey,
you will soon see that Naum is not closer to Rybka regarding choice of moves than other top engines including Hiarcs.
I give a copy from another post where I already announced that I let some Linares games analyze by five top engines, this means every single move from GM games by all including full analysis line with 3 minutes for each move.
Hi Per ,
thanks, looks really that we will have a new second best engine and I doubt that Zappa Mexico II will be better than Naum 3.
Toga is on top of the waitung list and we also wait for Fruit mp, not announced so far as far as I know.
Naum 3 will be finished in two weeks and Toga could start then, if no new Rybka or Deep Fritz will be released before, what I do not expect. If it happens two engines can be also tested at the same time, what would last six weeks instead of three.
It could be also Toga´s turn because Zappa Mexico II only shows the minor improvements expected by Anthony and the new Zappa finished the 2nd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 after 42 games with a disappointing result. Werner will give links to this one with rating update on Sunday and when I have posted in CEGT and Rybka forum what will happen probably tomorrow. I will also give remarks about openings and novelties in certain lines based on "The Week in Chess" and others where I collected a top database. Started is the 3rd Quad Marathon match Rybka 2.3.2a against Naum 3. First games will be also available on Sunday. Change here will be that I will play with elected sets from Harry´s new book, giving this way priority to lines en vogue and a frequency of variations chosen in current GM practice. I am doing this in order to see more novelties. But classic variations from the past century when top players where still not influenced by the strong engines will also be included.
Seeing by your efforts with positional and gambit rating lists that a lot of things can still be done this weekend you will also get games from Linares just finished with +ELO 2700 players. They are fully analyzed by the top engines Rybka 2.3.2a, Naum 3, Zappa Mexico II, Deep Shredder 11 and Hiarcs 11.2 mp versions with 3 minutes per move for each engine consecutively. Will also give statistical data regarding this. Commenting such a game this way also lasts averagely more than 24 hours, but who cares.
you will soon see that Naum is not closer to Rybka regarding choice of moves than other top engines including Hiarcs.
I give a copy from another post where I already announced that I let some Linares games analyze by five top engines, this means every single move from GM games by all including full analysis line with 3 minutes for each move.
Hi Per ,
thanks, looks really that we will have a new second best engine and I doubt that Zappa Mexico II will be better than Naum 3.
Toga is on top of the waitung list and we also wait for Fruit mp, not announced so far as far as I know.
Naum 3 will be finished in two weeks and Toga could start then, if no new Rybka or Deep Fritz will be released before, what I do not expect. If it happens two engines can be also tested at the same time, what would last six weeks instead of three.
It could be also Toga´s turn because Zappa Mexico II only shows the minor improvements expected by Anthony and the new Zappa finished the 2nd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 after 42 games with a disappointing result. Werner will give links to this one with rating update on Sunday and when I have posted in CEGT and Rybka forum what will happen probably tomorrow. I will also give remarks about openings and novelties in certain lines based on "The Week in Chess" and others where I collected a top database. Started is the 3rd Quad Marathon match Rybka 2.3.2a against Naum 3. First games will be also available on Sunday. Change here will be that I will play with elected sets from Harry´s new book, giving this way priority to lines en vogue and a frequency of variations chosen in current GM practice. I am doing this in order to see more novelties. But classic variations from the past century when top players where still not influenced by the strong engines will also be included.
Seeing by your efforts with positional and gambit rating lists that a lot of things can still be done this weekend you will also get games from Linares just finished with +ELO 2700 players. They are fully analyzed by the top engines Rybka 2.3.2a, Naum 3, Zappa Mexico II, Deep Shredder 11 and Hiarcs 11.2 mp versions with 3 minutes per move for each engine consecutively. Will also give statistical data regarding this. Commenting such a game this way also lasts averagely more than 24 hours, but who cares.
Topic 2nd CEGT Quad Marathon Championship 40/400 repeated -interim
By Heinz van Kempen
Date 2008-02-10 20:42
Hi all :-),
the report below is also available in German language for the many German readers here:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5788#5788
waiting for the new Naum 3 for including it in the Quad list I could partly use more machines for a new marathon match and already collected 20 games so far. You have to bear in mind that one game averagely lasts 24 hours.
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½0½½½½½½½11½½½1½1½ 12.0/20
2 Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU 0½½1½½½½½½½00½½½0½0½ 8.0/20[/code]
Against Zappa Mexico I upd. Rybka could win 24,5:17,5 (two more games added) and we have the same tendency once again with another win for Rybka inminent in a game in progress.
For a verdict we should of course wait for more games like always , but so far this long time games with non-adapted books gave a completely different impression than the short match in Mexico. In fact it is Rybka losing only 4 games out of totally 62 against the currently second best engine available and Zappa could surely avoid one loss or another by better access to the tablebases. When it comes to tablebase access the evaluation of Rybka is sometimes incorrect despite of shown search depths of more than 30 and 40 moves. See for example game 15 in the current match (between moves 72 and 76).
Harry Schnapp delivered a Shredder Classic book with more than 12,5 MB and apart from many other main lines like diverse Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Petroff, French Defence, Queen´s Gambit, Slav, Nimzo-, Queen´s-, King´s Indian, English, we can see now for example also Ruy Lopez Marshall Gambit and Najdorf Poisoned Pawn variations, from time to time en vogue in GM practice, too. The match is played the way that both engines have to play the same line with reversed colors, too.
Games are available for Replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and are also added to the downloads:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Best Regards
Heinz (CEGT testing team)
the report below is also available in German language for the many German readers here:
http://husvankempen.de/nunn/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=5788#5788
waiting for the new Naum 3 for including it in the Quad list I could partly use more machines for a new marathon match and already collected 20 games so far. You have to bear in mind that one game averagely lasts 24 hours.
[code]CEGT Quad Extreme 40/400 repeated 2008
1 Rybka 2.3.2a X64 4CPU 1½½0½½½½½½½11½½½1½1½ 12.0/20
2 Zappa Mexico II X64 4CPU 0½½1½½½½½½½00½½½0½0½ 8.0/20[/code]
Against Zappa Mexico I upd. Rybka could win 24,5:17,5 (two more games added) and we have the same tendency once again with another win for Rybka inminent in a game in progress.
For a verdict we should of course wait for more games like always , but so far this long time games with non-adapted books gave a completely different impression than the short match in Mexico. In fact it is Rybka losing only 4 games out of totally 62 against the currently second best engine available and Zappa could surely avoid one loss or another by better access to the tablebases. When it comes to tablebase access the evaluation of Rybka is sometimes incorrect despite of shown search depths of more than 30 and 40 moves. See for example game 15 in the current match (between moves 72 and 76).
Harry Schnapp delivered a Shredder Classic book with more than 12,5 MB and apart from many other main lines like diverse Sicilian, Ruy Lopez, Petroff, French Defence, Queen´s Gambit, Slav, Nimzo-, Queen´s-, King´s Indian, English, we can see now for example also Ruy Lopez Marshall Gambit and Najdorf Poisoned Pawn variations, from time to time en vogue in GM practice, too. The match is played the way that both engines have to play the same line with reversed colors, too.
Games are available for Replay here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and are also added to the downloads:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Best Regards
Heinz (CEGT testing team)
Hi all :-),
our updated rating lists are online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120-Quad list is updated with the finished Bright 0.2c match. Bright has 2840 elos after 450 games.
A short info about Marathon Match II will follow in a few hours. Replay zone and downloads are up to date too.
40 / 20:
This week we added more than 1800 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 220.567 games! A few older games have been deleted after cleaning the database. We included one new engine in our list: Romichess P3k.
New engines:
The only new entry this week is Romichess P3k with an elo of 2361 after 166 games. This is stronger than P2i - but NG5 version is still better in our list. We started to test new Frenzee and new Rotor versions too but we have not enough games to list these engines today.
Updated engines:
Last week a lot of games have been played with Zappa II x64 2CPU. The engine lost 7 points but is still 20 stronger than previous version. It is of course the strongest 2CPU-engine after Rybka, but to this day 88 points away from the Champion.
2 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 2CPU WM-2007 3055
11 Rybka 2.3.2a w32 1CPU 2968
13 Zappa Mexico II x64 2CPU 2967
17 Zappa Mexico x64 2CPU 2947
Toga II 1.4 Beta5c 4CPU is now in front of Hiarcs 11.1 4CPU and Naum 2.1 x64 4CPU.
One of the other updated engines in our list is Alfil 8.11 with now 341 games, 2537 elos and a plus of 52 since last week. The same happend to Popochin 3.1 after now 304 games: +52 elo-points and now with a rating of 2297.
40 / 4:
After 6946 new games the list was updated again. Here we have listed the new Zappa version too with 2960 elo. The engine is also very close to Rybka 2.32a w32 1CPU as in our 40/20 list!
17 Rybka 2.3.2a w32 1CPU 2961
19 Zappa Mexico II x64 2CPU 2961
Other new engines are:
282 Alfil 8.1 2615 (much better than in 40/20)
217 E.T. Chess 13.01.2008 2664
227 Booot 4.14.0 26
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
our updated rating lists are online and can be found under the attached links.
40 / 120:
Our 40/120-Quad list is updated with the finished Bright 0.2c match. Bright has 2840 elos after 450 games.
A short info about Marathon Match II will follow in a few hours. Replay zone and downloads are up to date too.
40 / 20:
This week we added more than 1800 games to our list. See more in our list "Games of the week". In total our 40/20 list is based now on 220.567 games! A few older games have been deleted after cleaning the database. We included one new engine in our list: Romichess P3k.
New engines:
The only new entry this week is Romichess P3k with an elo of 2361 after 166 games. This is stronger than P2i - but NG5 version is still better in our list. We started to test new Frenzee and new Rotor versions too but we have not enough games to list these engines today.
Updated engines:
Last week a lot of games have been played with Zappa II x64 2CPU. The engine lost 7 points but is still 20 stronger than previous version. It is of course the strongest 2CPU-engine after Rybka, but to this day 88 points away from the Champion.
2 Rybka 2.3.2a x64 2CPU WM-2007 3055
11 Rybka 2.3.2a w32 1CPU 2968
13 Zappa Mexico II x64 2CPU 2967
17 Zappa Mexico x64 2CPU 2947
Toga II 1.4 Beta5c 4CPU is now in front of Hiarcs 11.1 4CPU and Naum 2.1 x64 4CPU.
One of the other updated engines in our list is Alfil 8.11 with now 341 games, 2537 elos and a plus of 52 since last week. The same happend to Popochin 3.1 after now 304 games: +52 elo-points and now with a rating of 2297.
40 / 4:
After 6946 new games the list was updated again. Here we have listed the new Zappa version too with 2960 elo. The engine is also very close to Rybka 2.32a w32 1CPU as in our 40/20 list!
17 Rybka 2.3.2a w32 1CPU 2961
19 Zappa Mexico II x64 2CPU 2961
Other new engines are:
282 Alfil 8.1 2615 (much better than in 40/20)
217 E.T. Chess 13.01.2008 2664
227 Booot 4.14.0 26
A big „Thank you“ to all testers as usual! :)
40/20: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating.htm
Blitz: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/blitz.htm
40/120: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/rating120.htm
Tester: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/testers/testers.htm
Games of the week: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%20Rating%20List/Coordination/gow.JPG
Elo-comparison: http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/ELOcomparison.htm
Werner
CEGT Team
Hi all :) ,
Conditions:
time control:
40/400 repeated on Core 2 Quad E6600 (5 men) - 4 GB RAM
One single game lasts averagely 24 hours because this is real time control and not adapted to slower hardware like CEGT and CCRL are usually doing to adapt the very different hardware of testers to one level
The engines are using 1024 MB of RAM each
books:
The generic books by Harry Schnapp already well tested in CEGT 40/120. The special HS book for Rybka will not be used in order to give equal conditons
EGTB:
5 men
Like in CEGT 40/120 additionally all games are replayed and checked. Uri Blass and I noticed that especially Zappa sometimes plays 0 second moves. This are not always so-called easy moves (forced ones or obvious recaptures) and I do not know if this is part of the strange time management for Zappa or because of the ChessBase GUI. Anyway I changed to Shredder Classic GUI after game 24. As far as I could see those moves did not harm Zappa´s play causing it to lose one game or to deteriate it´s position, but maybe Zappa would play even better without them? So far I could not detect this 0 second moves in Shredder Classic GUI, but I have only one game up to now for comparison.
Interim results and comparison:
CEGT Extreme 40/400 repeated 2007
1 Rybka 2.3.2a mp 4CPU ½½½½½1½½01½001½1½½½½½1½½ 13.0/24
2 Zappa Mexico X64 v.2 4CPU ½½½½½0½½10½110½0½½½½½0½½ 11.0/24
For comparison the result of Rybka 2.3.2a mp 4CPU against Zappa Mexico 4 CPU in CEGT 40/120 (but please note that this was the first Zappa Mexico version before the update in December):
CEGT Quad tournament time control 2007
1 Rybka 2.3.2a 64 4CPU ½101½10½1½½101½1½½½½½½1½½½½½½1½½10½½1½0½111½1½½11½ 31.0/50
2 Zappa Mexico X64 4CPU ½010½01½0½½010½0½½½½½½0½½½½½½0½½01½½0½1½000½0½½00½ 19.0/50
Procedure and planning:
Planned is to run this marathon matches using one machine constantly all over the time (in case ot interest).
Only the top two engines will play this match. So if Zappa will not be developped further, we might soon see a new Naum, Hiarcs, Deep Fritz 11 or another engine facing Rybka in the CEGT Marathon Championships. If a new Rybka comes out this will replace the old one, but the current match should include at least 50 games.
Availability, download, replay and updates:
You can replay the games with or without comments here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and additionally download them using the following links at the bottom of this download page:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Updates will be available each weekend at the same time when the CEGT rating lists are given. I will post more rarely in the fora, but will report in German language in CSS and Schachwerkstatt tomorrow.
Early conclusions and impressions:
I am especially keen to see this match, because a lot of people claimed that Zappa would come close to Rybka giving a lot of time or using even faster hardware, what can be simulated this way. I have no idea how this time control on Quad can be compared to which faster time controls on 8 CPU´s or more.
I do not like to draw early conclusions but this up to now is by far the closest match including Rybka 2.3.2a I ever saw and the match is not decided yet.
Striking is the high percentage of draws. Two thirds of the games ended in draws, only 8 out of 24 had a winner. I hope this is mere accident and will change soon and not an indication about what we will see in computer chess in the future. In the CEGT 40/120 quad match between Rybka and Zappa we had 28 draws out of 50 games, also many but not that extreme.
Best Regards
Heinz
Conditions:
time control:
40/400 repeated on Core 2 Quad E6600 (5 men) - 4 GB RAM
One single game lasts averagely 24 hours because this is real time control and not adapted to slower hardware like CEGT and CCRL are usually doing to adapt the very different hardware of testers to one level
The engines are using 1024 MB of RAM each
books:
The generic books by Harry Schnapp already well tested in CEGT 40/120. The special HS book for Rybka will not be used in order to give equal conditons
EGTB:
5 men
Like in CEGT 40/120 additionally all games are replayed and checked. Uri Blass and I noticed that especially Zappa sometimes plays 0 second moves. This are not always so-called easy moves (forced ones or obvious recaptures) and I do not know if this is part of the strange time management for Zappa or because of the ChessBase GUI. Anyway I changed to Shredder Classic GUI after game 24. As far as I could see those moves did not harm Zappa´s play causing it to lose one game or to deteriate it´s position, but maybe Zappa would play even better without them? So far I could not detect this 0 second moves in Shredder Classic GUI, but I have only one game up to now for comparison.
Interim results and comparison:
CEGT Extreme 40/400 repeated 2007
1 Rybka 2.3.2a mp 4CPU ½½½½½1½½01½001½1½½½½½1½½ 13.0/24
2 Zappa Mexico X64 v.2 4CPU ½½½½½0½½10½110½0½½½½½0½½ 11.0/24
For comparison the result of Rybka 2.3.2a mp 4CPU against Zappa Mexico 4 CPU in CEGT 40/120 (but please note that this was the first Zappa Mexico version before the update in December):
CEGT Quad tournament time control 2007
1 Rybka 2.3.2a 64 4CPU ½101½10½1½½101½1½½½½½½1½½½½½½1½½10½½1½0½111½1½½11½ 31.0/50
2 Zappa Mexico X64 4CPU ½010½01½0½½010½0½½½½½½0½½½½½½0½½01½½0½1½000½0½½00½ 19.0/50
Procedure and planning:
Planned is to run this marathon matches using one machine constantly all over the time (in case ot interest).
Only the top two engines will play this match. So if Zappa will not be developped further, we might soon see a new Naum, Hiarcs, Deep Fritz 11 or another engine facing Rybka in the CEGT Marathon Championships. If a new Rybka comes out this will replace the old one, but the current match should include at least 50 games.
Availability, download, replay and updates:
You can replay the games with or without comments here:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/cegtextreme1.htm
and additionally download them using the following links at the bottom of this download page:
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/Replay/download40120.htm
Updates will be available each weekend at the same time when the CEGT rating lists are given. I will post more rarely in the fora, but will report in German language in CSS and Schachwerkstatt tomorrow.
Early conclusions and impressions:
I am especially keen to see this match, because a lot of people claimed that Zappa would come close to Rybka giving a lot of time or using even faster hardware, what can be simulated this way. I have no idea how this time control on Quad can be compared to which faster time controls on 8 CPU´s or more.
I do not like to draw early conclusions but this up to now is by far the closest match including Rybka 2.3.2a I ever saw and the match is not decided yet.
Striking is the high percentage of draws. Two thirds of the games ended in draws, only 8 out of 24 had a winner. I hope this is mere accident and will change soon and not an indication about what we will see in computer chess in the future. In the CEGT 40/120 quad match between Rybka and Zappa we had 28 draws out of 50 games, also many but not that extreme.
Best Regards
Heinz
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